Nothing New under the Sun

[Lisbon]

I left LC exactly two years ago and no desire to return except occasionally to go with my family and be with old friends. I was there 40 years and many are my friends but I strongly believe they are badly deceived. I feel little different about the RCC or the Mormons. WL became another Joseph Smith or Pope.

Lisbon

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Lisbon

I left LC exactly two years ago and no desire to return except occasionally to go with my family and be with old friends. I was there 40 years and many are my friends but I strongly believe they are badly deceived. I feel little different about the RCC or the Mormons. WL became another Joseph Smith or Pope.

Lisbon

I have read Brethren history, and I think John Darby is a better example of what Lee became. Darby, of course, was a genuine brother in Christ seeking to know and serve the Lord, but eventually many felt he had become a far worse "pope" than the one he constantly condemned in Rome.

I understand your points however, Lisbon, but most former or current LC'ers would dismiss your comparisons because it is doubtful that many of the Popes or Joseph Smith were even saved.

May you and all have a Blessed New Year in Christ Jesus!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I understand your points however, Lisbon, but most former or current LC'ers would dismiss your comparisons because it is doubtful that many of the Popes or Joseph Smith were even saved.

Autocratic leadership, centralization of power under "God's man of the hour," special revelations, and proprietary salvation, or at least proprietary sanctification and reward... doesn't seem too far-fetched to make comparisons.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Autocratic leadership, centralization of power under "God's man of the hour," special revelations, and proprietary salvation, or at least proprietary sanctification and reward... doesn't seem too far-fetched to make comparisons.

And don't forget the masses of traumatized sheep who "couldn’t make it" in the system and were cut adrift with the programs still running in their heads. They are so trapped in the mindset and teachings that they can't conceive of reality except the one that's been denied them. Their bodies are out but their souls remain in the system.

I've met with people who struggled to identify Christ, but instead called themselves "lapsed Catholics", and read blogs by ex-Mormons who still acknowledged 'their sacred writings' even though they couldn't handle the contradictions of the system, and seen ex-Local Churchers who couldn't meet with any other Christians because "they weren't on the ground of oneness".

Even though the system was ruinous for them, they couldn't conceive of any other system. They thought somehow their own imperfections were the fault.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Even though the system was ruinous for them, they couldn't conceive of any other system. They thought somehow their own imperfections were the fault.

And this was conditioned in the Local Churches by the focus on "good building material", versus sinners who need transformation. And the idea of "making it", as if the system is perfect and given by God Himself, but our inability to make sufficient progress is due to our inherent failures, which apparently cannot be corrected.

How can any system change, if it blames the people within it for its own shorcomings? And how can any system thus constructed do anything but continually spit out traumatized souls who tried and failed to please the system's unreachable dictates?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

And this was conditioned in the Local Churches by the focus on "good building material", versus sinners who need transformation. And the idea of "making it", as if the system is perfect and given by God Himself, but our inability to make sufficient progress is due to our inherent failures, which apparently cannot be corrected.

How can any system change, if it blames the people within it for its own shorcomings? And how can any system thus constructed do anything but continually spit out traumatized souls who tried and failed to please the system's unreachable dictates?

Blaming the rank and file members for the shortcomings of the LC is a problem I seen again and again. Maybe it's the easiest way in which to place the blame. One area in particular that I have seen this happen frequently is with trying to get an increase. When I read LC history, it clear that history that this has been a continual problem. I was in a meeting once where a brother judged a number of us for not having any "new ones". I don't think it's wrong to eagerly encourage everyone to invite friends to meetings, but passing judgement on people for not doing that is going much too far. Anyways, when I was at that meeting, I wanted to tell that brother that there is a reason I am not bringing friends to LC meetings. The reason being is that I didn't feel it's the right place for them, especially when there is such an attitude of judging others (which I have seen in many other situations as well). That is setting aside the numerous other issue I can think for not bringing someone to a LC meeting.

It occurred to me that there are probably many who are also in my shoes. All us "small potatoes" have our reasons for not inviting people to LC meetings, however, no one is going to vocally say why. So the LC has put itself in a position that instead of trying to determine why there is a lack of a normal increase, they instead blame members for the failings of the system that they created. It's easier to call saints "lukewarm" or "passive" rather than to address question of why that is the case.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

... the LC has put itself in a position that instead of trying to determine why there is a lack of a normal increase, they instead blame members for the failings of the system that they created. It's easier to call saints "lukewarm" or "passive" rather than to address question of why that is the case.

I think this is an accurate assessment. And to reinforce the point, it's an assessment that could have been made 30 years ago.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I was in a meeting once where a brother judged a number of us for not having any "new ones". I don't think it's wrong to eagerly encourage everyone to invite friends to meetings, but passing judgement on people for not doing that is going much too far. Anyways, when I was at that meeting, I wanted to tell that brother that there is a reason I am not bringing friends to LC meetings. The reason being is that I didn't feel it's the right place for them, especially when there is such an attitude of judging others (which I have seen in many other situations as well). That is setting aside the numerous other issue I can think for not bringing someone to a LC meeting.

It occurred to me that there are probably many who are also in my shoes. All us "small potatoes" have our reasons for not inviting people to LC meetings, however, no one is going to vocally say why. So the LC has put itself in a position that instead of trying to determine why there is a lack of a normal increase, they instead blame members for the failings of the system that they created. It's easier to call saints "lukewarm" or "passive" rather than to address question of why that is the case.

There's an adage from a former coworker at a prior employer, "it's better to blame than to be blamed".
In context of Freedom's post, the LC/LSM dont' want to take responsibility why there is lack of an increase. Today's LC is a far cry from the mid's 80's when it was easy to invite friends and classmates. Now, there's an unspoken understanding the LC meetings is not for everyone. It's no longer for general believers, but for ones who have a specific appreciation of the ministry. The scope of receiving is so much narrower than it used to be in prior decades.

Do elders and coworkers want to be addressed with real explanations why there isn't an increase? Lack of love and a lack of grace. They may ask, what are you talking about? Just allude to former elders and coworkers no longer welcome. Of course of you do, be prepared with the "negative" label.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Blaming the rank and file members for the shortcomings of the LC is a problem I seen again and again. Maybe it's the easiest way in which to place the blame.

WL used to blame all the saints for becoming Laodicea, yet he NEVER once took ownership for the continual decline both in membership and moral over the years. Never did Lee mention that thousands of precious saints had left the Recovery over the financial improprieties of Daystar, the corruption and abuses by his own sons, the massive smear campaign against the men of God who rose up to speak their conscience, and the endless failed programs sold to the saints as "God's move" or the latest "flow of the Spirit," to name just a few reasons.

Lee took zero responsibility for his actions and teachings, yet was always so adept at dumping truckloads of guilt, blame, and manipulation on the children of God. One time Lee threatened to terminate his ministry if the saints did not rise up to live by what he was speaking.

Too bad he never did keep his word.