The LCS Factor

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Roger

I can remember being in a series of meetings where Witness Lee was "training" us in the matter of touching the Lord. This was on the West Coast, during the late seventies when the young people had all gone out to there to be trained by him. My thirty-something child was in diapers at the time.

Originally Posted by Roger

I can remember what a burning his words caused in my being. He told us to go home and deal with our consciences before the Lord. We went home and did so. I had no feeling at the time that I was doing it out of loyalty to "The Ministry." In my heart I was getting help on exercising before the Lord, and what I was doing when I went home was anything but idolatry. I, and most others, were genuinely touching the Lord. His presence was too real.

Of course, at the time there was a lot I didn't know about Witness Lee, and eventually I came to understand that even in the matter of touching the Lord on an individual basis the group agenda was always lurking. Nevertheless, my heart was clear before the Lord at the time, and there is no way I could have been accused of idolatry.

There are many saints in that system today who are having similar experiences. Bottom line is: You can’t paint everybody in the Living Stream Churches as having some involvement with idolatry. It’s just not a righteous view. Roger

Dear Roger,

I would never say that people can or do not have experiences of the Lord in the LC. It is possible to experience the Lord anywhere.

For a view to be a righteous one, it must be true. So, we have to test the truth of the claim that all in the LC have some level of involvement in idolatry. Staying with my definition, which is to obey someone other than God in violation of God's Word, do you believe there are some in the LC who have submitted to the demands of the Blendeds in the present or who have not submitted to the demands of Lee in the past? Remember that silent assent is submission, and it is also sin if the demand is against God’s word. You can go a long way towards winning the argument with me that all were not involved in idolatry at least to some degree if you can prove to me that those who remain there are not submitting to dictates by men that are against the Word of God. If they are serving God only (not committing idolatry), they will not bow to unrighteous dictates, even if it costs them everything.

Thankful Jane

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

What were the Corinthians doing that Paul said: "Do not even eat with such a one..."?

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

Is everyone in LSM-abiding churches doing something equivalent?

If so, should I turn down meal invitations?
If not, is there something other than affiliation with an "LSM-church" which determines whether the "idolatry" is so bad that, as in Corinth, I should refuse and reject certain believers?

Peter

Dear Peter,

This verse by Paul is very specifically applied to people who are established to be such ones—ones for whom this is a way of life. If someone becomes involved in fornication or adultery and will not repent and stop the behavior, then they can be judged to be such a one. If a fellow believer habitually obeys dictates from someone that are clearly against the plain teaching of the Bible, and they will not repent when confronted with this, then they can be considered "such a one." This doesn't just apply to fornication, as I thought in the past. The Bible says clearly that one who practices coveting as a way of life is an idolater, and a brother who is an idolater is in the list of those with whom we should not eat.

Would I refuse meal invites? It would depend on the situation. If it had not been clearly established that someone was "such a one," I would not decline an invitation to eat. However, if it had been clearly established that someone was "such a one," then I would decline. This doesn’t mean I could never talk to them. It just means that I would not be able to enjoy close, intimate, family interactions and fellowship with them around the table. My unwillingness to eat at the table with them is a reminder to them that something is wrong. The purpose in this is to help them not forget their sin and to help them come to repentance. Note that I said "if this is established." This can't be done on a whim or as a result of gossip you have heard. There must be a proper process of having established what is really true which involves them, meaning Matt. 18 steps of communicating. If you just decide you think someone is an idolater and stop eating with them without communicating why, that would be wrong.

I have been put in this position in my life with people I love very much and am having to walk in it currently. I feel the loss keenly, but I have God’s peace that passes understanding and I believe He is working to convict of sin. I remember vividly a time in the past when the Lord gave me the verse "with such a one no not to eat" just before I was about to invite a sister to lunch, so I didn't. Later the Lord told me to ask her if she was involved in fornication. I did and she was, much to my surprise. When she refused to repent, I told her that the Bible did not allow me to have a nice social relationship with her as long as she continued this way of life because she was a sister in Christ. She chose to go her way for a few months, but later returned to tell me she had repented. Our fellowship was restored. She thanked me for having taken a clear stance with her about this. She had not been able to forget it.

I know this sounds hard to think about practicing. It isn't easy to write about it either. We love people, but sometimes true love is to do the hard thing in love. Often, the hardest thing is honest communication. It's always easier just to avoid it.

This is my view. I leave you and any one else to reach their own conclusion about what these verses mean in practice.

Thankful Jane