Eldership

[Peter Debelak]

I will attempt to make my way through the Scriptures which reference "elder" or perhaps "eldership" - because I do acknowledge their obvious place/occurance in the Scripture, and the first glance reading that the Scripture prescribes their existence. I just think that, after 2000 years of traversing the same ground, with persistent and compelling disagreement on this issue, it is a least a little worthwhile to at least entertain another hypothesis... So...

A look at 1 Timothy 5

The context of this chapter is that Paul is speaking concerning the “seniors” of the congregation (i.e. the presbuteros).

Many translations read verse 1 as “Rebuke not an elder…” (GK. presbeturos" and it is assumed that “elder” refers to the man who holds the office of eldership. However, in context of the sentence:

“Do not rebuke presbeturos (m) harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, 2 presbeturos (f) as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.”

It seems pretty straight-forward that Paul is referring to the elderly – not the “elders” who hold office in a congregation. The chapter goes on to discuss elderly widows (vv. 3-16). This suggest, even more, that the discussion of presbeturos thoughout the chapter, refers to "seniors" or elderly and not the person who holds the position of "elder".

Many read verses 17-20 as Paul referring to those who hold the office of eldership when he says:

17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,"[b] and "The worker deserves his wages."[c] 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

Just a plain reading of this passage, however, the word prespeturos in verse 17 cannot be read as referring to the title of “elder” – but rather just an elderly believer. Otherwise, the phrase is redundant: “the elders who direct the affairs of the church…” The very definition of the “office” of “elder” (if it exists) is that he directs the affairs of the church. Thus, the phrase would read, “Those who direct the affairs of the church who direct the affairs of the church…”. Redunant.

Instead, presbeturos in verse 17 is simply those “elders” (i.e. more mature believers) who have taken up a burden for the church. This may be a shifting set of folks at any given time. When they do so, they are worthy of double honor. An “elder” – if titled as such in an official position – has as his job description to “direct the affairs of the church” – and thus, by this verse, would be “worth of double honor” even when his actions weren’t, in fact, laboring for the church. Thus, the ad hoc reading of “who direct the affairs of the chuch” is one which is linguistically more accurate and, in my view, more righteous – as far as according “double honor” is concerned.

In the light of this reading of verse 1 and verse 17, I have a hard time reading prespeturos in verse 19 as anything other than “elderly believer.” Whether they have an official title or not, the senior believers among us carry a weight of experience and of Christ to which we should afford respect. We should not interact lightly – especially with accusation – against such ones. And that is regardless of whether they have an “official” title/position or not.

So, that’s 1 Timothy 5 – and I don’t think there’s much there that prescribes an “office” of “eldership” – in fact, the more natural reading of presbeturos in this chapter is “senior” or “elderly” rather than “elder/bishop/overseer” etc…

Thoughts?

Peter

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

So, that’s 1 Timothy 5 – and I don’t think there’s much there that prescribes an “office” of “eldership” – in fact, the more natural reading of presbeturos in this chapter is “senior” or “elderly” rather than “elder/bishop/overseer” etc…

Thoughts?

Peter

Yeah.

You just recently introduced me to the "elders" of the synagogue.

Paul's custom was to preach in the synagogues and he surely knew those "elders" there.

If we can say that the "elders" of the synagogue were merely "older ones" and a more or less fluid group, then I think we might be OK.

But to the extent that such a group was readily identifiable as titled office holders, Paul would need to distinguish his use of the term or it would behoove us to presume he intended the same meaning of the term.

Not necessarily as a direct continuation of Jewish practice, of course, nor perhaps even modeled after that pattern, although this is what I suspect, but simply, as you have noted, regarding the semantic value of the term.

In other words, if you picked up Paul's dictionary and looked up the entry for \presbeturos\, it seems likely that at least the second definition would read something like "an office of the synagogue." If Paul meant to use a different definition, it would seem to be necessary for him to make sure that we weren't confused about the folks who were there with us listening to him speak last sabbath, or at least the analogue among the believers.

Perhaps when speaking to Gentiles you might give Paul a pass on this lingusitical point, but as I recall, Timothy's mother was a Jewish woman and he himself was circumcised by Paul.

There is certainly at least the possiblity of confusion in this context, wouldn't you agree?

[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Yeah....You just recently introduced me to the "elders" of the synagogue.

You make a point that I was considering even as I posted this. My contention in the 1 Tim. 5 post was not that Paul would never use "prespeturos" to refer to "office of elder" - since I do think there was, in fact, something of an "office" which carried over from Jewish tradition and which Paul even perpetuated. But here, in 1 Timothy 5, I do think that his use of "presbeturos" refers to elderly. I get that it makes sense he would have perhaps attempted to use separate terms, since he did know of and did use "presbeturos" in the sense of an "office." But in this chapter, he refers to elderly women as "presbeturos." Also, I think the point here is that the elderly should be treated with particular respect, regardless of position/title and, when they have particularly labored for the church, they are worthy of double honor. That "prespeturos" does not refer to "office of elder" in this chapter is not necessarily an argument that "office of elder" didn't exist at the time.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

That "prespeturos" does not refer to "office of elder" in this chapter is not necessarily an argument that "office of elder" didn't exist at the time.

Oh, I see.

So now I have even LESS Biblical text upon which to understand the "office of elder."

Is that your point?

Great.... :rollingeyes2:

[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Oh, I see.

So now I have even LESS Biblical text upon which to understand the "office of elder."

Is that your point?

Great.... :rollingeyes2:

Its a consequence of my point. The specific point I was making isn't a specific point. The point of examining 1 Timothy was, in part, to address the larger issue that some of our theology regarding elders might be unanalyzed assumptions. Having a clear text (like 1 Tim 5) to show in more objective (e.g. linguistic) terms that our assumptions might be wrong, helps perhaps to loosen the strong-hold of presumptions as we try to look at this topic afresh.

But yeah, that is a consequence of that point. Sorry about that...