The LCS Factor

Cal · 09-17-2008, 02:27 PM

I've seen some things pretty close to cursing on these boards, and blessing from the same mouths (fingers?). I would hate to think that someone would say of me that because I was harsh with some at times in my life (and who hasn't been?) that means I've never blessed anyone either.

James isn't saying that blessing and cursing cannot come out of the same person, he's saying it should not. Otherwise we're all doomed.

Paul Cox · 09-17-2008, 03:41 PM

Yes, and every church in the world, and every minister in the world is doomed. Could it be that the Lord has, because of the words of James, totally discarded His Church?

Roger

Nell · 09-18-2008, 03:15 AM

Silly me. What was I thinking?

Nell

YP0534 · 09-18-2008, 04:04 AM

The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Quote:

Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God {did:} sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and {as an offering} for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able {to do so,}
Rom 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul Cox · 09-18-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger

Yes, and every church in the world, and every minister in the world is doomed. Could it be that the Lord has, because of the words of James, totally discarded His Church?

Roger

Sorry, let me put it a little differently. As we survey the globe, is it possible to find a church or group of churches who it cannot be said of them that that both "blessings" and "cursing" come from them?

Someone has brought up different ministers from the past. But let's just take Witness Lee, for example. We were all there testifying of how blessed we were from the words spoken during his open ministry. Yet, at the same time, he was quick to "curse" those who disagreed with him.

I put the words blessings and curse in quotes because both words can be open to interpretation. When Witness Lee opened his mouth to condemn people like John Ingalls, it was clearly a curse, but to many it was a kind of a blessing.

So I guess that brings up a question. How do you define blessing, and how do you define cursing? Someone said that they heard cursing come from this board. I don’t think so.

To bless someone is to speak well of them and ask God’s favor upon what they are doing. So to curse someone must mean to ask God to hinder and foil someone or even to condemn them.

I have been cursed by some in the Local Church before. It was prayed that things would not go well in my life, and whenever anything did go wrong, it was said that the reason was because I was “against The Ministry” (The Lord did vindicate in the end). I don’t think I’ve seen that kind of thing here.

Maybe I’m all wet, but I think you have to view James’ words in light of what we see happening around us. Otherwise, as soon as we find out that a minister has had cursing coming from his mouth, then we would have to totally discard everything we were blessed with from him before.

I don’t think this is off-topic. Being cursed by someone in the Local Church is a terrible abuse.

Roger

Nell · 09-18-2008, 08:53 AM

If Witness Lee had repented for his sins against the Lord's brothers while he was leading a "worldwide" Christian organization, and changed his ways, you all might have a point. He did not. How do we know? Because those who followed him in leadership have expanded and multiplied the sinful leadership practices begun by Lee, and in many ways, the remaining organization of a publishing company and its franchise "churches" are worse. The fruit of unrighteousness remains.

As long as people are willing to compromise and tolerate unrepentant sin and appreciate "the good works" of the sinner, sinful behavior will continue. Why repent if none are willing to hold you accountable? This is hypocrisy. This is leaven. This is meat sacrificed to idols. This is bad fruit. It really doesn't matter who does it. It's wrong. Sin is sin...call it what it is. God does not tolerate sin. He sent His Son to pay the price for our sinful behavior. What an affront to that ultimate sacrifice. What an affront! Does God drink of the guilded cup of the "good Witness Lee" with Lee's works of darkness inside? I don't think so. Whatever is holy and clean is of God. Witness Lee's righteousness is as filthy rags. So is mine. So is yours.

Why did God send Adam out of the garden if all he did was get a little deceived along the way? Chill, dude. Didn't Adam name all the animals? Look at all the good things Adam did. Adam was numero uno! The MAN. It wasn't his fault anyway...it was hers.

Nope. I don't buy it.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Nell

Cal · 09-18-2008, 09:13 AM

Dear Nell,

The point is not that Lee or anyone else doesn't need to repent of sins. The point is that you said because he cursed some therefore he never blessed any, or because he didn't repent (to your satisfaction) any blessing he might have rendered is invalidated. My point is that either point is an extreme and incorrect view.

This issue is not how Lee will be judged. We don't know that. The issue is you seem to be saying he did nothing pleasing to God.

Quote:

Nope. I don't buy it.

What, exactly, don't you buy?

Nell · 09-18-2008, 09:23 AM

What are you talking about?

Read it again, Igzy. I didn't say any of that. I made 1 statement agreeing with Shawn, I quoted some verses and asked some questions. You have totally misrepresented my post.

Nell

Cal · 09-18-2008, 09:26 AM

Okay, please help me to understand by telling me what you don't buy? Because I think you are misunderstanding me, too.

09-18-2008, 08:53 AM	#6
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,121	If Witness Lee had repented for his sins against the Lord's brothers while he was leading a "worldwide" Christian organization, and changed his ways, you all might have a point. He did not. How do we know? Because those who followed him in leadership have expanded and multiplied the sinful leadership practices begun by Lee, and in many ways, the remaining organization of a publishing company and its franchise "churches" are worse. The fruit of unrighteousness remains. As long as people are willing to compromise and tolerate unrepentant sin and appreciate "the good works" of the sinner, sinful behavior will continue. Why repent if none are willing to hold you accountable? This is hypocrisy. This is leaven. This is meat sacrificed to idols. This is bad fruit. It really doesn't matter who does it. It's wrong. Sin is sin...call it what it is. God does not tolerate sin. He sent His Son to pay the price for our sinful behavior. What an affront to that ultimate sacrifice. What an affront! Does God drink of the guilded cup of the "good Witness Lee" with Lee's works of darkness inside? I don't think so. Whatever is holy and clean is of God. Witness Lee's righteousness is as filthy rags. So is mine. So is yours. Why did God send Adam out of the garden if all he did was get a little deceived along the way? Chill, dude. Didn't Adam name all the animals? Look at all the good things Adam did. Adam was numero uno! The MAN. It wasn't his fault anyway...it was hers. Nope. I don't buy it. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. Nell Last edited by Nell; 09-18-2008 at 09:13 AM.

09-17-2008, 02:27 PM	#1
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	I've seen some things pretty close to cursing on these boards, and blessing from the same mouths (fingers?). I would hate to think that someone would say of me that because I was harsh with some at times in my life (and who hasn't been?) that means I've never blessed anyone either. James isn't saying that blessing and cursing cannot come out of the same person, he's saying it should not. Otherwise we're all doomed.

09-17-2008, 03:41 PM	#2
Paul Cox Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 181	Yes, and every church in the world, and every minister in the world is doomed. Could it be that the Lord has, because of the words of James, totally discarded His Church? Roger

09-18-2008, 03:15 AM	#3
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,121	Silly me. What was I thinking? Nell

09-18-2008, 09:23 AM	#8
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,121	What are you talking about? Read it again, Igzy. I didn't say any of that. I made 1 statement agreeing with Shawn, I quoted some verses and asked some questions. You have totally misrepresented my post. Nell

09-18-2008, 09:26 AM	#9
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Okay, please help me to understand by telling me what you don't buy? Because I think you are misunderstanding me, too.