My Testimony: Olvin

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Olvin

I don't think there are many who have suffered more indignities than myself in the local church. Still I challenge all who post here to do this: take your biblical understanding; subtract all the revelation you have received from "the ministry" and consider what you are left with. Can you minister life with that? Do you still see God's purpose, do you yet know the mystery of the human life? I doubt.

Olvin, this paragraph from your testimony kind of sums up the controversy we face on this forum. From one point of view, we had many experiences of Christ with the brothers, and learned so much about the Bible. From another point of view, the leaders abused lots of dear saints and hid their unrighteousness from sight. I definitely understand both sides of this debate because I was active in the churchlife for 3 decades, migrating twice to start new churches. I could go on and on about all the good ... and all the bad ...

Igzy and others on this forum no longer place a high value on all the Bible doctrine we have learned in the LC. They tend to focus on the Lord's commands to "love God and love your neighbor." When it comes to how the leaders in the LC's treated the saints, they are a dismal failure, as evidenced by your own testimony. "Greater love has no man than this, than we lay down our life ..." was grossly absent in LC leaders. Paul's pattern of being with the saints, as recorded in numerous books of the New Testament, was not practiced by LC leaders. It is impossible to find one verse in the Bible that can justify both W. Lee's and T. Chu's practice of publicly shaming the brothers.

I have on many occasions noted on this forum how many beloved gifted brothers who departed after enduring Titus Chu's constant abuses. Both churches I helped to start were nearly destroyed by this. You yourself have tasted this fiery trial which never should have happened. And why did it happen? Because both Titus and Lee loved to be first, lording it over the churches. They used public shaming to maintain their power base. As a result, brothers were forced to choose between being man-pleasers or being faithful to God and their conscience. They left because they chose God over man.

So we can debate all day about which point of view we like to have. Personally I treasure all my experience of Christ and everything healthy I have learned from LC teachers. The Lord warned the disciples, however, to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees," and I too have been forced to discard many LC teachings as lousy leaven. I have also discarded all of Lee's views on church history as being seriously self-serving. I could go on and on, but the point is that LC leaders took advantage of the trust we placed in them, and never took responsibility for their failures.

The Apostle Paul warned those from Ephesus that this would happen in Acts 20.28-30, "And take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has placed you as overseers to shepherd the church of God, which He obtained thru His own blood; I know after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; And from among you yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

Lee and Chu taught many "perverted things to draw us after themselves," and not after Christ. They surely loved the glory of men. All the glory had to go their way, rather than to God's only Son. Isn't our Heavenly Father jealous over His Son? Jesus warned the Pharisees, "How can you believe when you love the glory of man, more than the glory of God?" LC leaders were filled with the doctrines on faith, but did not possess the real thing, otherwise why would they have to resort to constant lawsuits?

[Olvin]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Olvin, this paragraph from your testimony kind of sums up the controversy we face on this forum. From one point of view, we had many experiences of Christ with the brothers, and learned so much about the Bible. From another point of view, the leaders abused lots of dear saints and hid their unrighteousness from sight. I definitely understand both sides of this debate because I was active in the churchlife for 3 decades, migrating twice to start new churches. I could go on and on about all the good ... and all the bad ...

Ohio, I am thankful for your spirit (can I say that here?;-) You are so correct, we had many experiences of Christ and learned so much about the Bible.These are the things that constitute our faith; our experiences of Christ and knowledge of His word, no matter whose ministry we received them under. We cannot discount the sovereignty of God in our lives, and we surely don't want to be a cause of stumbling for others, by causing them to doubt their experiences of Christ and trust in the word which God has caused to shape their faith.

While I was in the LC, Cleve., Lorain, and Elyria,(the latter two, like you, I labored to initiate) I pushed back hard against the so called delegated authority, always reminding them that God's throne, the highest authority, is established upon righteousness; that eating and drinking Christ was great but the kingdom was not that, it was righteousness... first. We belong to the One who told use that we would we would experience fiery trials, and not to think it strange as though some strange thing were happening to us. We don't get to chose the fire we pass through, we would never chose fire; still the trying of our faith - which is more precious than gold- the trying of our faith is more precious than what we think most precious.

One story in scripture (and there are many) of overcoming the trauma of unrighteousness inflicted by leaders and or brothers is in Saul's jealous pursuit of David. David finds himself in a cave with 400 of the distressed, indebted, and discontented, all pursued by KING Saul. Some writers say 15 to 20 years David spent fleeing Saul's insane, murderous, rampage. Those with David thought him mad for not killing Saul when he could have. These men had become effected by David's heart; his heart to trust God changed their hearts. When word of the king and his son's death came, all the men that were with David, all being pursued by Saul their brother their king; all tore their clothes morned and wept 2Sam.1. Then David's song for Saul and Jonathan which he said was to be taught to the children, shows that David was a man who came to understand the grace and mercy of a sovereign Lord. I encourage those who post here - take a fresh look that scripture.

Brother, you know God's people have a history of being traumatized by those who speak in his name. Still like Paul, pressed down beyond measure even despairing of life, but believing God can raise the dead; we, his brothers have the same spirit of faith.

Brothers this will most likely be my last post here; I pray you all keep yourselves in the love of Christ. Peace!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From another point of view, the leaders abused lots of dear saints and hid their unrighteousness from sight.

In public, the leaders can be quite positive. If you attempt to touch or expose their unrighteousness, this is when brothers and sisters may be set aside if they attempt to "tell it to the church". Whether you use the term delegated or deputy authority, the result is the same; spiritual abuse.
Instead of using the principle Matthew 18, the easy and expedient approach is to use the authority to set ones aside who oppose unrighteousness.