How much is a "Morning Revival"?

Originally Posted by OBW

So about $1.2M. Not really a whole lot by itself to cover the salaries of the ones who actually work in it. Since the paid ones are not simply Lee and his sons, it is not a huge amount for its workers. But it does keep them from having to get real jobs in the real world.

I thought expenses include salaries, maintenance of LSM, etc.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I thought expenses include salaries, maintenance of LSM, etc.

Sorry to be such a cynic but I suspect the expenses are fudged. Many services are provided free, by local church suckers, er, ah, saints. Plus, they've fudged their taxes in the past. Why change now.

We have a member here that was booted out for saying Witness Lee committed crimes. When confront by the elders, and told to deny the statement or get out, he had to hold to what he knew was true, and that was the end of his local church life.

Truth don't stand with human institutions either.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sorry to be such a cynic but I suspect the expenses are fudged. Many services are provided free, by local church suckers, er, ah, saints. Plus, they've fudged their taxes in the past. Why change now.

I am very skeptical. Of course you would have to break down where the total revenue and total expenses comes from:
How much is spent by LSM to support it's workers?
How much is spent by LSM on travel?
How much is spent by LSM on health insurance?
How much is spent by LSM to have radio broadcasts?
How much was spent towards CRI?
How much revenue comes from publications?
How much revenue comes from webcast subscriptions?
How much revenue comes from trainings fees I mean donations?
How much revenue comes from Local churches for DCP, rela estate purchases etc?
How much revenue comes in to support past, present, and future litigation?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Terry

I am very skeptical. Of course you would have to break down where the total revenue and total expenses comes from:
How much is spent by LSM to support it's workers?
How much is spent by LSM on travel?
How much is spent by LSM on health insurance?
How much is spent by LSM to have radio broadcasts?
How much was spent towards CRI?
How much revenue comes from publications?
How much revenue comes from webcast subscriptions?
How much revenue comes from trainings fees I mean donations?
How much revenue comes from Local churches for DCP, rela estate purchases etc?
How much revenue comes in to support past, present, and future litigation?

See the link in post #8

My question is: is the FTTA a separate legal entity with its own budget? I think probably, like a "local church" that is subject to LSM but legally separate.

And the Taipei Gospel Book Room, etc. Probably a lot of the stuff is "off the books" legally but completely enmeshed in the LSM money-making machine. That way you never see the whole thing.

Originally Posted by aron

See the link in post #8

I think probably, like a "local church" that is subject to LSM but legally separate.

Is it possible to break that "bond?" The reason I asked is because I am so grateful to a brother J. who happens to be an elder in a local church. I don't want to make him sad if he knows I left the local church for good. Why is LSM strong armed to every local church? Brother Aron, I read your recent posts and they gave me light and support. Brother J. helped me greatly, too. What should I do?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is it possible to break that "bond?"

Of course. Any bond can be broken. The question is, are you prepared to break it? Are you ready for what comes next? Everything you thought you knew comes apart. If you have "the church" and not "God" as your navigational center, and you let go of the church as the focal point of your universe you will have to find a new God. Or rather, you will have to let God find you, wherever you find yourself. Do you believe God can do that? If you reply 'Yes', then let go.

Why is LSM strong armed to every local church?

It seems as if everyone has their own answer to this question. My best attempt at an answer is probably found in the way societies structure themselves. See my comments in "The Asian mind and the Western mind" thread. If you are Asian, you may have some helpful comments from within your own socially-developed understandings that help us with this. Nee & Lee came from a culture that said, "Never question authority." See Nee's writings to the Chinese saints vis-a-vis the newly victorious Communists in the early 1950s. Strict obedience to the state was a given.

Today, of course, absolute submission is dressed up in spiritual garb: "the ministry of the age" and "the Lord's present testimony" and "the oneness of the Body of Christ". But in reality it means one thing: I am the Boss. It is an unquestioned and unchallenged statement, and because it's unquestioned it remains firmly in place. Its very survival depends on its not being questioned. As soon as you begin to critically poke at the underlying assumptions it collapses fairly quickly.

Remember, you didn't go through what you went through, for nothing. God is a businessman, who wants to use your experiences to help others. God has an investment in you. So your journey is not a selfish one, but it is tied up, somehow, with the journeys of many others. Trust God and continue your journey. You are not alone.

If I have learned anything, it is that I am unqualified to serve God. So is your friend "J". Everyone is partly compromised, including Witness Lee. Only Jesus can serve God. So take your eyes off of "J", off of your situation, off of the church as you understand it, off of your history. Watch Jesus. Watch Him carefully.

When Jesus said, "I am the way", He was serious: He is the way. Let go of everything else.

[HERn]

Hello Unregistered. I would like to make a comment on "breaking the bond" and "watching Jesus carefully" as mentioned by bro Aron. I have benefitted greatly by reading the gospels without anyone's footnotes (LSM, others) and just learning about Jesus afresh. I think I need a "freshening" (maybe continually). Sometimes in the Lord's Recovery the thinking is to go beyond the "low gospel" (I hate that term now), the Jesus in the gospels into so-called high peak things like the seven-fold intensified spirit, the processed and consummated god...how can we go on beyond our precious Lord and savior Jesus Christ? To me there is nothing beyond Him.

Originally Posted by aron

Of course. Any bond can be broken. The question is, are you prepared to break it? Are you ready for what comes next? Everything you thought you knew comes apart. If you have "the church" and not "God" as your navigational center, and you let go of the church as the focal point of your universe you will have to find a new God. Or rather, you will have to let God find you, wherever you find yourself. Do you believe God can do that? If you reply 'Yes', then let go.

It seems as if everyone has their own answer to this question. My best attempt at an answer is probably found in the way societies structure themselves. See my comments in "The Asian mind and the Western mind" thread. If you are Asian, you may have some helpful comments from within your own socially-developed understandings that help us with this. Nee & Lee came from a culture that said, "Never question authority." See Nee's writings to the Chinese saints vis-a-vis the newly victorious Communists in the early 1950s. Strict obedience to the state was a given.

Today, of course, absolute submission is dressed up in spiritual garb: "the ministry of the age" and "the Lord's present testimony" and "the oneness of the Body of Christ". But in reality it means one thing: I am the Boss. It is an unquestioned and unchallenged statement, and because it's unquestioned it remains firmly in place. Its very survival depends on its not being questioned. As soon as you begin to critically poke at the underlying assumptions it collapses fairly quickly.

Remember, you didn't go through what you went through, for nothing. God is a businessman, who wants to use your experiences to help others. God has an investment in you. So your journey is not a selfish one, but it is tied up, somehow, with the journeys of many others. Trust God and continue your journey. You are not alone.

If I have learned anything, it is that I am unqualified to serve God. So is your friend "J". Everyone is partly compromised, including Witness Lee. Only Jesus can serve God. So take your eyes off of "J", off of your situation, off of the church as you understand it, off of your history. Watch Jesus. Watch Him carefully.

When Jesus said, "I am the way", He was serious: He is the way. Let go of everything else.

The more I read your posts, the more I feel that you and brother "J" are much alike in God's life, always willing to help the weak ones like me. Indeed, I am the Asian Mind (haven't read your article yet, will soon) and English is my second language. In a broader sense, it is individualism (western) vs. collectivism (eastern). I remember, my American advisor once asked me a question I'd never forget: "you used "we" quite a bit in your research paper, not "I""? Then, I realized the concept is somehow born to me since I grew up in an eastern environment. So there is the "blended" and "corporate" concept because voting is not allowed. That might also explain a bit why Witness Lee's teaching is quite "followed" by Chinese and Taiwanese. Of course, ethnic factor plays a role too. My friend "J" is a 100% white male, though, a great servant of God. He is probably the only reason I still not renounce my local church affiliation openly, though I don't meet with them anymore. Yes, brother Aron, I will watch Jesus, watch Him carefully, and knowing Him is my way.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is it possible to break that "bond?" The reason I asked is because I am so grateful to a brother J. who happens to be an elder in a local church. I don't want to make him sad if he knows I left the local church for good. ... Brother Aron, I read your recent posts and they gave me light and support. Brother J. helped me greatly, too. What should I do?

Hi unregistered.
YES! IT IS POSSIBLE to break the bonds. However... the memories will linger. And that's just part of life on this earth.

What helped me break the bonds is GIVING THANKS and asking the LORD to bless those who blessed me while in the LC.

I am thankful that (back in the 70s) I was encouraged to read and 'pray read' scriptures and read the Word. As an example. Several months after I had become saved and was pretty much an 'LCr', I went to an LC home for lunch/dinner. There was a picture of a loaf of bread on the wall with the inscription 'I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE'. I stopped to ponder the picture and scripture, and suddenly 'bing', the LIGHT lit up ! I had my AH -HA moment. Because I/we had been eating Jesus for all those months, Holy Spirit GOD revealed the understanding to me.

So I am thankful for my Salvation, Deliverance and the spiritual care I received. When the focus was intensified on Lee and the church, the Presence and Love for Father God, Son/Word, Jesus and Holy Spirit, Voice of God left. HE went POOF! and so did I! I left. Was it easy? Nope! But His Goodness and His Mercy followed me wherever I went. And He will do the same with you. HE WILL NOT FORSAKE YOU OR LEAVE YOU...only draw you nearer to Him and give you renewed Strength in Him.

Why is LSM strong armed to every local church?

Because it has a deep desire and hunger to 'CONTROL'. Every leader if not truly seeking the Counsel of the Holy Spirit will inevitably taste the POWER of CONTROL. Look at our political leaders and religious leaders...(not only in this country btw)

AND it is people...the lay people... the 'common' folks that give that POWER to control. A good leader and a good teacher in the LORD will help a person or congregation to FOLLOW THE SPIRIT and the LIGHT of the Word.

That doesn't mean we stop fellowshipping and learning from one another. Simply means... STOP idolizing a leader !!!!!!!!!!!

And that is what the LC did. They took their eyes of Jesus, stopped walking in the SPIRIT...and relied on Lee and the footnotes, the morning revivals, the trainings, etc..... to FEED them....and accecpt ONLY THEIR FOOD.

That is why there are so many sickly LSMrs.

The GOOD NEWS! Our Awesome KING and SAVIOR, LORD and DELIVERER JESUS will guide us all back to Himself. His sheep KNOW His Voice (Holy Spirit) and will lead us ALL back to Himself. He restores our health and heals our wounds. That's His Promise. And Jesus is a KEEPER of His Promise.

Blessings on your Journey !!!!!!!!!
Carol

[aron]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

... it has a deep desire and hunger to 'CONTROL'. Every leader if not truly seeking the Counsel of the Holy Spirit will inevitably taste the POWER of CONTROL. Look at our political leaders and religious leaders...(not only in this country btw)

This reminds me of the HWFMR outlines, they're full of "we need to" and "we must" and "we should" and "we have to". All showing deep-seated dissatisfaction, being manifested through a ministry of need. The need for power masks insecurity.