In a local church only a few months... and now leaving.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ohio. Where had you read? Prove it.

Sorry, you must have thought I was being serious.

I was only repeating something I heard years ago.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry, you must have thought I was being serious.

I was only repeating something I heard years ago.

The Living Streamers are smart enough not to print their more incendiary assertions. They don't want to leave a paper trail, to scare off the newbies.

But they'll say that kind of thing, privately, if you've demonstrated that you have "the vision". Then you'll get to hear Local Church secrets.

One of the things that attracted me to the church was the strong worship of Christ Our Lord. How many places can one actively call out the feelings of love and admiration that are being felt for Our Lord during a service without being considered outrageously out-of-line? I am very thankful for that aspect of the LC.

As time has gone on and continues to move forward, I cannot help but see how the LC has become more and more like the Catholic Church. The Catholics have always maintained that they are the true church and while they do admit now that the Lord has sheep in "other folds", they maintain their belief that they are the REAL church. I have attended Catholic services and cannot help but notice that Christ's name is mentioned a great deal, but it is mixed with the Marian doctrine (which is a tragedy) and an adoration of the church. The church, as the bride, should not speak of herself or glorify herself. Her focus, the desire of her heart, is always on the Bridegroom. I hear speaking after speaking in which the church (LC) is spoken of in glowing terms--as if she were worthy of a kind of worship. In the Bible church that I attended when young, this never occurred. Oh, someone might mention that they enjoyed the Youth group or that pastor so-and-so had led them to the Lord, but testimonies and speakings NEVER glorified the church, only the Father and Christ. The only other group of believers that I remember speaking of "the church" in this way were Catholics. I find it ironic that the LC who despises the Catholic Church for her erroneous teachings (and there are, indeed, many) has become like them in diversion of loyalty and worship to the bride from the Bridegroom.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The church, as the bride, should not speak of herself or glorify herself. Her focus, the desire of her heart, is always on the Bridegroom. I hear speaking after speaking in which the church (LC) is spoken of in glowing terms--as if she were worthy of a kind of worship.

If you go to the LSM training or conference, or read the written material, and the focus and attention is on "the church as the Body and Bride of Christ" you can see the focus shifting.

In the Lord's Table meeting there will be the perfunctory, "Father God we love You!" declaration, until the focus turns back to the "ministry", which is about "building the Body" and "consummating the New Jerusalem". The greatest commandment, to love God and love your neighbor as yourself, is relegated to lesser status.

And then a new phrase appears in the jargon: "for Christ and the church", which eventually just becomes "forchristandthechurch". So when you get married, don't fall in love with the soulmate given to you by God; rather, get married forchristandthechurch.

The irony is indeed striking that this movement eventually became a mirror not of Christ but of the RCC. Of all things.

Terry shared:

"Pastoral care. In a sense there this care, but based on being partial. If you are one described as "hot for the ministry", you will receive care. If you are one described as "lukewarm for the ministry" or "lacking the vision", you will be ignored. Generally pastoral care is reserved more for the college age with the intent of nurturing and preparing them for the full time trainings."

When I first touched the LC, I was awed by how it seemed to reach out to those in the "highways and byways"--the cast-offs of society, the unwashed--and invite them in to the Love Feasts, etc. There was a genuine desire to share Christ with everyone, but particularly those in "low places". Somehow, somewhere, the focus changed completely. There is now an attempt to capture the fragrant young--the future high-salaried college kids with absolutely NO desire to minister to oh, say, a truck stop or nursing home--let's leave THOSE tasks to the Pentecostals, Methodists, and Baptists. THOSE people bring problems into the church that might have to be dealt with-such as addiction, dysfunctional homes, etc. THOSE people will not be able to give as much. THOSE people may not be smart enough to fully comprehend the wording of our writings (tripartite, intrinsic) and, therefore, be unable to echo it back. The sick--if popular (and that is the REAL word for it, not just "hot for the ministry" because I have seen those who are totally FOR the ministry be ignored because they lack charisma) get lots of attention, prayers, and food. The old--even those who have spent their lives under the ministry--are given little attention.

Pastoral care is said to be a "body matter"--that EVERYONE is responsible for ministering one to another. The problem is that if EVERYONE is responsible, no one does it. Tasks that are not specifically assigned to someone are most often left undone. In the denominations, the "despised" clergy is assigned this task and, therefore, show up and pray and then put the "bereavement committee" or the "food committee" on task taking care of everyone--popular or unpopular. The leadership of the local churches are not tasked with caring for the sick, the dying, the fading-in-faith, etc. It has been my observation that they are not assigned this task--it is, after all, a "body matter", and we know what that means.... It was not always this way. Many are grieved to see the change.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When I first touched the LC, I was awed by how it seemed to reach out to those in the "highways and byways"--the cast-offs of society, the unwashed--and invite them in to the Love Feasts, etc. There was a genuine desire to share Christ with everyone, but particularly those in "low places". Somehow, somewhere, the focus changed completely. There is now an attempt to capture the fragrant young--the future high-salaried college kids with absolutely NO desire to minister to oh, say, a truck stop or nursing home--let's leave THOSE tasks to the Pentecostals, Methodists, and Baptists. THOSE people bring problems into the church that might have to be dealt with-such as addiction, dysfunctional homes, etc. THOSE people will not be able to give as much. THOSE people may not be smart enough to fully comprehend the wording of our writings (tripartite, intrinsic) and, therefore, be unable to echo it back. The sick--if popular (and that is the REAL word for it, not just "hot for the ministry" because I have seen those who are totally FOR the ministry be ignored because they lack charisma) get lots of attention, prayers, and food. The old--even those who have spent their lives under the ministry--are given little attention.

I have definitely noticed this, and it has always bothered me a bit. It seems like the LC has always placed a strong emphasis on trying to gain people, yet in reality they don't want you to gain just anyone. I've heard them list all the reasons why they should focus on gaining college students.