How to help people whose friends and relatives are active members of the LC

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by NeedofHelp

Just to tag along on the end of this, while we are mentioning brainwashing. I have a friend of my friend who is in the church. My college best friend came about this new friend, and they hang out a lot.

Anyways, I told her that she's in a cult. I brought up how it was in that encyclopedia and all that. She said it was dispelled with that "we were wrong" article. And I said the author of that article has also been called corrupt.

So we dropped the subject for a second, and I mumbled "You're more gone than I thought."

And she says, "what?"

And I looked her in the eye and said, "They brainwash you there, do you know that? You're brainwashed."

Now here's the kicker, her reply:
"What is wrong with brainwashing when it is in the name of the Lord and it brings you to His Kingdom?"

That's when I felt like I had no shot at getting through to her. Because brainwashing in any sense is wrong, to me at least. They should be allowed to think for themselves but I can't seem to get through to them. I'm going to try to ask them to read Psalms and James, like you guys have suggested.

I just know they both don't belong there. I pray all the time about it, and I feel that the Lord has directed me to help them come out of it.

InChristAlone, have you had any success with your wife? I've been going through the same encounter practically with my best friend.

I have been to a college training. I have also been to a number of college conferences for that matter. I tended to be fine with college conferences, but I had a hard time at the college training. The environment seemed strict and tense.

When I look back at the time when I was in college and why I went to a college training, I think my main motive was that it made me feel "important" and I knew I would get props for going. I realize that some are pushed to go even though they don't want to. That wasn't the case with me. I felt like I had something to prove by going.

My experience of the college training was that I had to follow a strict schedule, sit through 3+ meetings a day and basically act like I was being "trained". I look back on it and realize it was all a big act I was putting on. I think all the rules and regulations really kept it from being a more positive experience for me.

I think that it goes without saying that the posted rules are strict and you wouldn't expect to see rules like that at a retreat for any other church. I don't necessarily have a problem with strict rules, but it would do one well to ask what is the motive and purpose is behind those rules? Who is making those rules and why are they necessary? Their superficial answer to that question is that the college students need to be "trained". I think that the whole issue of the whole trainer/trainee idea is just that they need people who are willing to do what they are told and accept LC doctrines without question.

Regarding "brainwashing", I never experience anything like it. I will say that sitting in meetings for 6 or more hours a day can be quite stressful and can have ill effects on people, I know it does for me. Looking back the result of a week of the college training, was that it created a bit of a superiority complex in me. By that I mean I felt I saw a "vision" unique to those who were there.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Regarding "brainwashing", I never experience anything like it.

Reminds me of a line from the classic movie "The Sting". The old con artist, played by Paul Newman, tells his trainee, "You have to keep this con after you take his money. He can't know you took him."

The most effective brainwashing is where the mark doesn't realize that their brain has been taken over. It must be set up carefully to be effective. The Local Church version requires two things. First, get them to agree that there is a God in the universe and that Jesus is the way to God. Make them see that the Bible shows Jesus Christ the Savior of the world. So first you establish the authority of the scriptures.

Then, you are all set: all you have to do is select some parts of the Bible that will guide your "mark" to take the bait. Put your "mark" in a heavy, emotional scene where people are screaming these special words, shaking, men are crying, women are drooling and slumped over, and get the mark to wave their arms and shout the special words.

Once the mark has created an emotional response to your special words, you've got them. Now your words are inserted not only in their brain but in their "heart". They refuse to critically examine these words because of the special emotional relationship established. Their ability to learn, to grow, to change (i.e. be transformed) has been terminated.

Look at the disciples of Jesus. How many times in the gospels does it say that "they were astonished beyond measure." Once you take the Local Church way, the only way to get that "astonished beyond measure" experience is to go to some heavy, charged atmosphere where people are crying out the teachings of Lee. "I'm a God-man!!! I'm a God-man!!!" Etc. They call them, meetings, trainings, conferences, and so forth. But they are inculcation seminars. They are re-wiring your brain with the Lee program.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Looking back the result of a week of the college training, was that it created a bit of a superiority complex in me. By that I mean I felt I saw a "vision" unique to those who were there.

That special feeling you got, was an indicator that you'd been had. But as long as you could point back to a few Bible verses, you never knew you'd been taken for a ride.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

The most effective brainwashing is where the mark doesn't realize that their brain has been taken over. It must be set up carefully to be effective. The Local Church version requires two things. First, get them to agree that there is a God in the universe...Then... select some parts of the Bible that will guide your "mark" to take the bait. Put your "mark" in a heavy, emotional scene where people are screaming these special words, shaking, men are crying, women are drooling and slumped over, and get the mark to wave their arms and shout the special words.

Once the mark has created an emotional response to your special words, you've got them... That special feeling you got, was an indicator that you'd been had. But as long as you could point back to a few Bible verses, you never knew you'd been taken for a ride.

The way to see that this is all a con is where Lee says that only his chosen verses are "revelatory", and that others are "natural" and "fallen". So you think you are following the Bible, but really you're following those parts of the Bible which Lee has chosen as a vehicle for his con. Believe me, there is a big difference. But until you see the difference, you'll never know that you've been had.

I testify to its effectiveness; when I left the Local Churches, and went "back to Christianity", I spent several years trying to convince the poor, fallen, moo-cowing Christians in "the denominations" and "the free groups" of the superiority of the Lee vision. It took years to read the Bible without "Lee glasses" on. Every time I read the Bible I had Lee's commentary in my head, and when I read scriptures that Lee hadn't commented on, my mind simply went back to the "controlling verses" that I was familiar with. There was no way for me to think critically about what I was reading, and no way further into the divine revelation. I believed that Lee had presented us with the "high peak" and there was no way to go further.

So, given that it took me years to shake this stuff out of my brain, after leaving the Local Church program, think how hard it is for someone who's fully in the indoctrination program? Tuesday night prayer meeting, Thursday night home meeting, Friday night college meeting, Saturday morning "ministry" meeting, and of course Sunday is the Lord's Table meeting. And in all those meetings, and in private conversations, is the constant reinforcement of how superior this teaching is, how everyone else's is poor, dark, divided, fallen and so forth. And you constantly hear how dangerous it is to be "individualistic", and think for yourself. You gotta give them credit, they have a pretty effective system.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

And in all those meetings, and in private conversations, is the constant reinforcement of how superior this teaching is, how everyone else's is poor, dark, divided, fallen and so forth. And you constantly hear how dangerous it is to be "individualistic", and think for yourself. You gotta give them credit, they have a pretty effective system.

Someone could make a movie: and one of the climactic scenes would have the Maximum Brother saying, "Who among you have I controlled? Tell me!! Who!?" And the crowd, replete with glassy stares, sing-songy tones, and hands thrusting forward, replies, "You controlled no one, Big Brother!"