In a local church only a few months... and now leaving.

[InChristAlone]

NeedofHelp, I believe the main thing you can do for your friend is your prayer. Pray always for your friend, don’t rely on your strength, wisdom, and understanding, but let the Lord deal with the situation. Your friend needs God's grace more than anything that you can give her. Therefore, never stop praying.

In my opinion, the LC is a cult and its members are cult victims. Usually, cult members refuse to listen to any independent sources of information that criticize the cult and its teaching. The information is considered invalid because it comes from an outsider. And you are an outsider, while the LC members are “the chosen ones”. The LC members believe that Christianity is fallen and it’s only them who know “the high-peak truth”. That doesn’t mean that you can’t do anything or you have to join the cult to help your friend. I just want to say that it can be hard for you to persuade your friend to leave the LC. She doesn't trust your opinion because you are not an authority for her in this matter. You may tell her the truth about WL and his son, but she won’t believe the facts. You may tell her that the LC substitutes the word of God (the Bible) for the word of man (WL and his books), but it will be a miracle if she notices the substitution.

You can try to change your approach. Don’t tell your friend everything you know about the LC. Do the opposite. Start asking questions. Don’t be pushy. Just ask a question from time to time: How often do you read the Bible? Why do you read the Morning Revival and Crystallization Study, not the Bible? What was the last message about? How does this message relate to Christ’s message? Can this “high-peak truth” be higher than Christ’s words: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'? Can “the high-peak truth” help us enter the kingdom of God if we don’t love our neighbors (who are everyone around us and not saints only)? What makes you think that the LRC is the only genuine Christian church? Why do you rely on one man’s opinion about the Bible? What makes this man to be an authority? Could he make mistakes? If he could make small mistakes, could he make crucial mistakes as well? What made WL change his opinion and vision from time to time? If he is infallible, doesn't he remind you a pope? Can I share with you another interpretation of the verse? Why do saints leave the church? Are all these saints ambitious, proud, and arrogant? If she knows the truth about the hidden history of the LC, ask her if a bad tree can bear good fruit? Can we be saved, eating fruit of a bad tree? What did Jesus say about false teachers? What are their fruits? (Matthew 7:15-20) What are their character qualities? Greed, pride, and rebellion? (Jude 1:11) What kind of man was WL in his private and church life? What did he say about Christianity and other Christian churches? What are characteristics of denominations? Can the LC be called denominational church of Witness Lee? Are Christ's message and WL's message the same? What about "the high-peak truth?" Does WL go further than traditional Christian churches? What is this upgrade for? If the gospel of Christ and His words remain the same, then why does the Bible need an upgrade and update (or recovery)? Where does Jesus mention WL's "high-peak truth"? How many Bible verses support "the high-peak truth" in the Morning Revival? Why does this "high-peak truth" take priority over Jesus's words? Does this "high-peak truth" help you to love God and your neighbor more? Where is Christ in the high-peak truth of Witness Lee? Can you say that you can see Christ in WL's books more than you see Him in the Gospels? If not, then why do you start your day with the word of man (Morning Revival) and not with the word of God (the Bible)? What if WL's doctrines don't lead you to Christ but somewhere else? What about the Apostle Paul who says in Galatians, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ... If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Pray to the Lord to grant you wisdom and ask right questions in the right time. Plant your seeds step by step. Help your friend to question her beliefs. But again... Don’t behave like an enemy to her. Be her friend. Always.

You may also try to email her some testimonies like this: http://jubileeresources.org/?page_id=102 (Thanks to Aron!) Ask your friend to explain some points; ask what she thinks about the testimonies. But don’t bomb her email account with testimonies day and night.

Read more about cults to find out similar characteristics between the LC and other cults. If your friend takes you to an LC meeting, pray to the Lord, before, during, and after the meeting. I don’t recommend to attend the LC meetings, but if you happen to be there, you must be warned and fully alert of the cultish system so that not to be deceived by the external state of joy, goodwill, and happiness.

http://www.leaderu.com/common/cults.html
http://www.the-gospel.org/stdy_hrmnt....php?pass=prnt
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q8.html

Last but not least, start changing yourself. I’m sure you are a good Christian, but there is always a way for perfection. “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect”. (Matthew 5:48) Read and study the Bible, fulfill commandments, pray more, developing your personal relationship with Christ. Glorify His name with your thoughts, words, and actions. Fight your passions. Don’t gossip, don’t discuss people, and don’t waste your time with idle talk. If you speak, speak with love, humility, and kindness. That’s difficult for everyone of us. I’m not an exception. But if we want to help our friends and relatives to leave the darkness, we must become a torch for them. To do that, we must let the light of Christ to shine through us. That doesn’t happen overnight. You will need to make efforts to live in communion with God. But if you live in strong connection with the Lord and bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit, then it will be easier for you to show the right way to your friend. You will not be a torch holder but a part of the light. If your friend sees Christ in you and your life more than in her church life, she may wonder and start questioning. And one day she may say to herself, “How come my friend has no idea about the LC high-peak truth but s/he is so full of Christ? Is there something wrong with my spiritual life? I had better spend more time with my friend. Maybe s/he can show me a better way to Christ”.

May the Lord’s love, kindness, and humility dwell in you. God bless.

I have tried with the harmless questions but she thinks I am interested in her church and she tries to protect me and doesn't want me to come. I have known her for 2 and a half years and she has never had me come to any of her church services or dinners, except once where it wasn't exactly a church dinner, I just experienced a prayer before the dinner which was odd to me how they did it. But anyways, I try to ask questions and she will just keep it very general or say I don't understand. A new tactic they use on our campus is during orientation she has to text everyone that comes by their church booth and say how excited they are for the upcoming year and they hope to see them again. I know she has this inner turmoil because she will tell me how she feels that she doesn't belong, but she will blame it on other things, such as she has class that she is missing, etc. One of the funniest things she says, I wish she could hear it replayed to her, about the church is this:

"I know I haven't liked it for the past 8 years, but I'm trying to like it now and it's just hard to get out of that mindset that I dislike it and into the mindset that I like it."

Last time she said this I just stared at her and said "Oh okay." because I don't want to push her buttons. She's been trying to like them for the past 4 months, and some days she likes it and some days she doesn't. She had told me before that she is questioning things, like is she happy or is this what she stands for, but I think that it gets quickly shut down because of her family. She will flip modes, too. Some days she's the original person that I know and love, and other days she will turn into this mean, abrupt, rude person to me, which are usually the days she defends the church. I know this is a long road and I pray a lot and see Him working in her, I just feel that I play a key role in getting her out. I'm pretty much her only shot.

But now that I've read through this feed, I've seen that most members get out on their own accord, such as they feel it in their heart that it's wrong. I think she's feeling that now but she is trying to bury that feeling to please mom and dad. She doesn't want to be the mess up of the family, and I wasn't aware that the church practically excommunicates members, so I did not realize that her family may disown her or not talk to her. Of course she would try to stick it out and deal with it, so as to not lose her family. I feel so bad for her and wish I could make it easier for her.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by NeedOfHelp

I have tried with the harmless questions but she thinks I am interested in her church and she tries to protect me and doesn't want me to come.

That is not just your friend. For many in the local churches this is normal response. Not that they would acknowledge, but if these brothers and sisters are honest there would be an admission the churchlife is not for everyone. There is a reluctance to invite your friends, your coworkers, your relatives, etc. Your friend may not want you to come, because the nature of the meeting is not generally receptive to all Christians. Just as in certain foods, there's an acquired taste. Same for the LC meetings, it takes an acquired taste. Because of that your friend may be fearful your reaction may affect your friendship. As your initial reaction may think of "sectarian" or "cult" and naturally most LC members become defensively reactive to such descriptions of the LC meetings.

I have a side question, does anyone know if LC threatens members if they leave? Like is there a punishment or some damnation that is told to members to try to scare them to stay in?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by NeedOfHelp

I have a side question, does anyone know if LC threatens members if they leave? Like is there a punishment or some damnation that is told to members to try to scare them to stay in?

Directly? No.

But they warn that they will be unable to "go on" with God. Oddly, it seems somewhat true for many because they get addicted to the kind of meetings that have been and can't find them elsewhere, so they just stop going anywhere and often die on the vine. It is a kind of sickness that is caused by the LRC and not by the other places.

And they also sometimes tell the kind of "someone once left and got run over by a truck" stories. Those have been told by all kinds of groups since before there were trucks (of course with a different culprit).

The worst thing they do is convince the people that their way is really the right way and everyone else's is wrong. And if they are failing at it, it is just a matter of our inability to do it right. Anything else is just wrong. Drill that in long enough and people are convinced that they are associated with the thing that is as close to "the way" as can be found and they will never leave. And if they do, they are convinced that nothing else will do instead because it is even "worse" than what they had.

But it is all smoke and mirrors. They tell you about how everyone else is in a garlic room as they cut clove after clove of garlic in the room until you don't recognize truth from fantasy. They are playing on the weakest part of man's mind, and that is often his vanity. A little like the rats that have two levers to pull; one gives them a mild, pleasurable electric shock while the other delivers run-of-the-mill food. They will pull the shock lever until they collapse, then get up and pull it some more. It strokes them.

I am reminded a little of that King of Rohan in the second book of JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy who drove his own family away because of a spell cast upon him. When Gandalf drove off the spell, there was a slow change in both his appearance and his thinking. It can be eliminated. But not while the thinking remains clouded.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OBW

Drill that in long enough and people are convinced that they are associated with the thing that is as close to "the way"

Stand back from it all and ask: Is this what Jesus pictured for his followers? Is going constant meetings, conferences, trainings, reading the same material, following one man, going around calling 'Oh Lord Jesus' all the time, what Jesus pictured for his followers?

Seems ludicrous to me.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by awareness

Stand back from it all and ask: Is this what Jesus pictured for his followers? Is going constant meetings, conferences, trainings, reading the same material, following one man, going around calling 'Oh Lord Jesus' all the time, what Jesus pictured for his followers?

Seems ludicrous to me.

If that is what had been recorded, then I could be willing to go along with it. But I don't find that anywhere. I find an OT full of types and pictures that made "meetings" less, on average, than once a month with long periods of working in the fields, buying and selling in the marketplace, living with family and hired workers — all with a commandment to love them, to deal with them honestly in all aspects of life, and so on.

And despite the rather lengthy section of one book that tells about all the sacrifices, it seems that after that, it was more common to find God saying "I desire obedience, not sacrifice."

Originally Posted by NeedOfHelp

I have a side question, does anyone know if LC threatens members if they leave? Like is there a punishment or some damnation that is told to members to try to scare them to stay in?

I would say no, but indirectly yes. I grew up in the local church and my grandpa is a leading individual in the church. I left years ago and definitely got looked down on. Maybe partially because I am happy to speak about it and am not quiet on my opinions of them. Of all the people that I knew there I only really ever see one person still and she was the only person I knew there that never judged me for being me. All I can say is that there are a lot of very fake people there. Christianity is about not judging others so there should be no reason to be fake. Eventually however, I stopped caring about what they would think of me and did what made me happy. I'm happily meeting somewhere else and have never felt happier. Definitely never experienced Christ in the local church like I did at my new church. So who cares what they say!!

[Cal]

The whole power of the LC over members and ex-members comes from the mistaken idea that you must go through them to get the blessings of God.

This is a total deception. There is no biblical reason to believe such a thing. God doesn't grant anyone exclusive distribution rights. In fact, the opposite is true. God will work through anyone and any group.

Once you see this deception for what it is, you are free. However, you must still chart a path for your "going on." You must find fellowship, live a holy life, and all the rest. Many people who are disappointed with their spiritual lives post-LC simply haven't learned to function outside of that cocoon-like culture. Even if you are assured that the LC has no power over you, you still have to find your way going forward. You have to adapt to new cultures and new ways of doing things.

Some of the LC-ingrained ideas die hard. It took me a long time to realize the point of life is not to be spiritual. Rather the point of being spiritual is life. By that I mean spirituality is supposed to issue in what the Bible calls "good works." In the same manner, for example, we eat, drink and breathe, but we don't make those things ends in themselves. The end is living itself--a life well-lived, full of good works, glorifying God. The LC tried to make everything about eating, and ended up with a vacuous, pointless culture.

The list goes on. But though the LC has no monopoly on anything, knowing that should become simply a footnote to your life going forward. You have to adapt and change.

[awareness]

What concerns me most about the LC movement, is not the flaws of the local church, but the flaws that were in me, that caused me to join the group, and stay in it for so long.

I can leave the local church flaws behind. But my flaws stay with me wherever I go ... and into my new life, outside the LC. These are the lasting flaws, that will just get us into more trouble, causing us to possibly repeat the pattern, taking us to another dead end.

I think it will come natural, or should, that after leaving we'll become very careful about hooking our wagon to: some one, some thing, or some movement, group, or leader.

Yes we may learn from others smarter than we. But that doesn't mean we hook up to them, like we hooked up to the local church.

I'd say the most important concern after leaving the LC is to develop your critical thinking (thinking for yourself). Cuz you allowed others in the LC do your thinking for you -- all nicely packaged and delivered to you (for a fee) -- a lot of your brain muscles atrophied. It may take time to redevelop them, back into shape, or to, in my case, develop them fresh. In a nutshell, basically, as Jesus advised, become "wise as serpents." And work out your relationship with God from there, wherever that may lead.

Yes, there's life after the local church ... and there's still God ... and Jesus ... and the Bible ... and love ... and laughs. More than enough.

Enjoy it!!! And be sure to give thanks ....

And there will be peace in the valley. Amen!

I have always had an issue with the LC saying that it is the "movement of the age" and that WL is the "apostle of the age". There is no mention of some great prophet or apostle rising from the land of the dragon (China) in the last days to bring all Christians back into the "true form" of meeting in Scripture. Honestly, brethren, don't you think that the Lord would be sure to mention that this special apostle was coming so that we would not "miss the boat"? Would He not want all of His saints to partake? If this is the TRUE church meeting in the TRUE way, would He not say something to make us watch for it? I realize that they lay hold of Philadelphia and claim to be that church. However, is it not THEY who say (when it comes to receiving light from any Christian not dead and long gone) "we are rich and have need of nothing?" Not like Philadelphia--but Laodicea.

I simply have never been able to "overcome" the incredible audacity of someone getting to the "playground" last and declaring himself "king of the hill". I guess that this means that I am NOT an overcomer and never will be!

And regarding what Igzy shared (and I agree!) about being spiritual--I would only say that all that it takes to be "spiritual" is to be focusing on the Lord Jesus and God the Father with love. At that moment, we are spiritual. There is no recipe, no mantra, only looking into His Beautiful Face and loving Him as we go through each day.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have always had an issue with the LC saying that it is the "movement of the age" and that WL is the "apostle of the age". There is no mention of some great prophet or apostle rising from the land of the dragon (China) in the last days to bring all Christians back into the "true form" of meeting in Scripture. Honestly, brethren, don't you think that the Lord would be sure to mention that this special apostle was coming so that we would not "miss the boat"? Would He not want all of His saints to partake? If this is the TRUE church meeting in the TRUE way, would He not say something to make us watch for it?

Have you not read that Nee and Lee were prophesied in Revelation as the two witnesses, the two olive trees?