Became or Not Became - Interpreting 1Cor 15:45

Ohio · 05-30-2014, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Yes, experience is a funny thing, but it is not the topic of this thread.

Ok Ohio and others.

You win! I give up! I confess that you have worn me down. I only have so much time to combat your "experience" blitzkrieg. Apparently some of you are so hell-bent on side tracking any thread that would have even the slightest focus on "theology" that you will continue on no matter what I post.

Sorry bro UntoHim,

I guess I had no idea what I was doing.

When it comes to a theological discussion of this verse, I am not qualified to post.

awareness · 05-30-2014, 05:49 AM

Great post #43 ICA.

Maybe you have redeemed us to UntoHim, with your EO take on 15:45.

After all, we don't want our moderator to be flabbergasted ...

UntoHim · 05-30-2014, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

When it comes to a theological discussion of this verse, I am not qualified to post.

Sure you are, we all discuss theology all the time on this forum.

Ok, how about a homework assignment?

Ravi Zacharias is one of the preeminent theologian/philosophers of our day. (and no I'm not saying he's the one theologian with the one theology for the age...only that he explains the trinity the clearest I've ever heard) Here is a short video of some question/answer session he had a some university. The good stuff really starts at about the 3:00 minute mark.

Due to some of the "advanced" vocabulary, it is somewhat hard to follow Zacharis. Here's a real zinger from this video: "The only way to explain unity and diversity in the effect is if you've got unity and diversity in the first cause, and only in the Trinity is there unity and diversity in the community of the Trinity".

If you're like me you will have to listen to this a few times before you get what he's saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gwoZNudCI

awareness · 05-30-2014, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Sure you are, we all discuss theology all the time on this forum.

Ok, how about a homework assignment?

Ravi Zacharias is one of the preeminent theologian/philosophers of our day. (and no I'm not saying he's the one theologian with the one theology for the age...only that he explains the trinity the clearest I've ever heard) Here is a short video of some question/answer session he had a some university. The good stuff really starts at about the 3:00 minute mark.

Due to some of the "advanced" vocabulary, it is somewhat hard to follow Zacharis. Here's a real zinger from this video: "The only way to explain unity and diversity in the effect is if you've got unity and diversity in the first cause, and only in the Trinity is there unity and diversity in the community of the Trinity".

If you're like me you will have to listen to this a few times before you get what he's saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gwoZNudCI

I see resurrection -- quickening -- of the dead in 15:45, but not the trinity. Is this your theology on 15:45? If so, go on. I want to hear more. Even if it means more homework.

awareness · 05-30-2014, 10:45 AM

Was the apostle Paul even a Trinitarian? If so I don't see it. I think I need some help from you smart people. Somebody educated me. Was Paul a Trinitarian?

UntoHim · 05-30-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awareness

Was the apostle Paul even a Trinitarian?

Since a great majority of Trinitarian theology is based upon many of the writings of Paul, I don't think it would be a stretch to call him the father of Trinitarian theology - or maybe just the very first Trinitarian.

It seems to me many people are confused between the terms trinitarianism and tritheism (The teaching/view that the three of the Trinity are three Gods). Tritheism has been considered a heresy since the very beginning of the Christian Church. There is little doubt that the great majority of early Church Fathers, teachers and those who followed them were Trinitarians. They may have not have used the actual term, but all the records and writings of the first two centuries indicate that they were. Of course there were all sorts of dissenters (many of whom were the first major heretics).

We know that Witness Lee did not really consider himself a "conventional" Trinitarian - in fact he commonly called orthodox-type teachings on Trinitarianism "borderline tritheism". And I realize that many of us are coming from that point of view, or maybe some modified version thereof. But I was really hoping that we could approach this verse (1 Cor 15:45) from the conventional Trinitarian point of view - conceding that there are differing points of view within the pale of biblical Christianity - but also conceding that we have to have some common ground from which to make our arguments.

Also, as always, LET US TRY OUR BEST TO NOT MISUNDERSTAND EACH OTHER ON PURPOSE!

awareness · 05-30-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Since a great majority of Trinitarian theology is based upon many of the writings of Paul, I don't think it would be a stretch to call him the father of Trinitarian theology - or maybe just the very first Trinitarian.

Please elaborate ...

Ohio · 05-30-2014, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ravi Zacharias is one of the preeminent theologian/philosophers of our day. (and no I'm not saying he's the one theologian with the one theology for the age...only that he explains the trinity the clearest I've ever heard) Here is a short video of some question/answer session he had a some university. The good stuff really starts at about the 3:00 minute mark.

I watched several minutes of this video, while reading some of the comments below it. It seemed that not one of them was favorable to RZ's lecture.

awareness · 05-30-2014, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

I watched several minutes of this video, while reading some of the comments below it. It seemed that not one of them was favorable to RZ's lecture.

Sounded like intellectual spiritual razzmatazz to me. In the end he can't explain the mystery of the trinity any more than anyone else.

But I got a kick out of his explanation of love. That, basically, before the creation, the trinity were lovers of each other. Not sure I'm buying it, but it's great to picture it in my head.

Over all, thanks Untohim for the homework.

UntoHim · 05-30-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

I watched several minutes of this video, while reading some of the comments below it. It seemed that not one of them was favorable to RZ's lecture.

Interesting. Sounds like you spent more energy looking at the comments then actually listening to the short statement itself. Of course none of the comments were favorable, they were coming from people who don't believe in the Trinity in the first place - Unitarians and non-Christians mostly. Anyway, when you get a chance maybe you could actually listen to that last 5 minutes, and then make a comment yourself.

Look, I didn't say that this video was easy listening. I'm only trying to get us all to maybe slightly agree upon some very basic "framework" (for lack of better word) about the theology of the Trinity. Again, I would ask you to listen to the last 5 minutes and try to catch some of the basic premises put forth by Zacharias.

If you'd rather not, no biggie.

05-30-2014, 05:49 AM	#2
awareness Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,064	Re: "Become" or "Not Become" Interpreting 1Cor 15:45 Great post #43 ICA. Maybe you have redeemed us to UntoHim, with your EO take on 15:45. After all, we don't want our moderator to be flabbergasted ... __________________ Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise.

05-30-2014, 10:45 AM	#5
awareness Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,064	Re: "Become" or "Not Become" Interpreting 1Cor 15:45 Was the apostle Paul even a Trinitarian? If so I don't see it. I think I need some help from you smart people. Somebody educated me. Was Paul a Trinitarian? __________________ Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise.