Became or Not Became - Interpreting 1Cor 15:45

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Christ is in us, not physically or locationally, but relationally and morally. God isn't interest in "location." He's a Spirit. He has no physical location. He's interested in moral state and relationships. This is why Jesus can pray that they may be one as He is "in" the Father and the Father "in" Him.

Traditional, orthodox Christian scholars and teachers have usually taught that Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit. I think when we take into the consideration the totality of the words of the Lord Jesus, and those of the scripture writing apostles, this is as accurate of a teaching regarding how Christ is in us as we can wrap out little minds around.

Yes, God is interested in moral state and relationships, but the fact is is that God also addresses location as well. Twice in Matthew 6 the Lord Jesus gave an indication of the location of the Father: "for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven" (vr 1) and "Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be your name" (vr 6).

Also we can go back to that very familiar verse in John: "for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son...". Not trying to be flippant here (UntoHim flippant...no way!)...Well, God sent his Son somewhere, now didn't he? I don't think we need to have degrees in language to get the drift that God the Father sent his Son from somewhere to some place. And let's all at least agree to thank, praise and glorify him for this!

We get hung up on how the Father, Son and Spirit can be one or "in" each other. But their oneness and in-ness is one of essence. And that essence is relationship, also known as love. And God is love. Genuine love always produces oneness.

I really and truly believe that good, solid theology does not get us "hung up" at all, in fact I think it has great potential to "un-hang" us from erroneous and harmful thoughts about the nature and character of God. Look what happened when we were taught "we don't care about doctrine we only care about life" - we became a bunch of people that could be best described as the blind leading the blind.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Traditional, orthodox Christian scholars and teachers have usually taught that Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit. I think when we take into the consideration the totality of the words of the Lord Jesus, and those of the scripture writing apostles, this is as accurate of a teaching regarding how Christ is in us as we can wrap out little minds around.

Yes, God is interested in moral state and relationships, but the fact is is that God also addresses location as well. Twice in Matthew 6 the Lord Jesus gave an indication of the location of the Father: "for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven" (vr 1) and "Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be your name" (vr 6).

Also we can go back to that very familiar verse in John: "for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son...". Not trying to be flippant here (UntoHim flippant...no way!)...Well, God sent his Son somewhere, now didn't he? I don't think we need to have degrees in language to get the drift that God the Father sent his Son from somewhere to some place. And let's all at least agree to thank, praise and glorify him for this!

I really and truly believe that good, solid theology does not get us "hung up" at all, in fact I think it has great potential to "un-hang" us from erroneous and harmful thoughts about the nature and character of God. Look what happened when we were taught "we don't care about doctrine we only care about life" - we became a bunch of people that could be best described as the blind leading the blind.

Well, I believe heaven is more a moral location than a physical location. Jesus gave us an "address" but he never said it was a physical place. I think it helps to realize that heaven is a place where moral realities have more substance than physical ones. The moral is the physical there, so to speak. The inside is the outside.

When you say "Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit" that sounds good theologically, and I have little problem with it, but it really doesn't answer the question whether Christ is actually in us himself. Are two in me, or one? And can I experience the distinction between the two, or do I need to? And if I don't, doesn't the idea that Christ is in some way the Spirit carry some weight?

"Through the representation of the Holy Spirit" doesn't mean much unless you again interpret it from relational angle. If the Holy Spirit can be seen as the relationship and flow of love and light between the Father and the Son, then it's easy to picture that the relationship (the Spirit) brings with it the person related to (the Son). That's what I mean when I say it at least helps to consider these things from the moral/relational angle.