How to help people whose friends and relatives are active members of the LC

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Terry

I would not encourage that. It may result in stumbling. If a brother or sister has the peace to meet in the local churches, let them in peace.
My experience required no convincing. At least directly. In directly through the evil speaking of former leading ones, something was off and it seemed as if I was the only who was inwardly disturbed by the condescension and slander until I came to formerly thebereans.net and now this forum.
I don't see quite as escaping the local churches, but needing to find a Christian fellowship that meets my spiritual needs.

My wife would have never realized the need to leave the LCs, but now after we left we both know we were much better off for it despite the warnings from some LCers that we would fall spiritually. Our marriage is also much better off now.

This brother's post is spot on. We've both learned to love and forgive much more than in the past due to being fed by our current church ministry. This has helped our marriage and relationships tremendously. There was also a lot of brokenness in our past, such as my struggle with rejection, bitterness, unforgiveness and shyness that God was able to heal in us through the word, his speaking and the ministry from the new church we are in. I'm a completely different person now than I was in the LCs and it feels good to be free and have all these chains broken, and I hope others can come to share in this after leaving the LCs.

A lot of strain was brought into our relationship because of the new baby, but we've been able to overcome a lot of difficulties and pitfalls in our marriage through a lot of prayer, love, forgiveness and trying to see things from the other person's perspective. I think my marriage would have been in danger honestly had we not found the church we're meeting in now.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by bearbear

My wife would have never realized the need to leave the LCs, but now after we left we both know we were much better off for it despite the warnings from some LCers that we would fall spiritually. Our marriage is also much better off now.

This brother's post is spot on. We've both learned to love and forgive much more than in the past due to being fed by our current church ministry. This has helped our marriage and relationships tremendously. There was also a lot of brokenness in our past, such as my struggle with rejection, bitterness, unforgiveness and shyness that God was able to heal in us through the word, his speaking and the ministry from the new church we are in. I'm a completely different person now than I was in the LCs and it feels good to be free and have all these chains broken, and I hope others can come to share in this after leaving the LCs.

Amen! My wife was not raised in the local churches as I was. She enjoyed being with the brothers and sisters for the Lord's Table, but was indifferent towards Witness Lee's ministry. A bigger concern is how we regard one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Since moving on, the Community church we now meet, I learned an important lesson about grace. How to give grace practically.

For my parents, for my uncle and aunt, I would never try to convince them to leave. It's much more than spiritual. For many of the older couples I know in their 60's and 70's, the local church is their social connection.
For younger brothers I know raised in the local churches, I wouldn't say anything that could result in them being stumbled. As long as it meets your need, go on positively.

[InChristAlone]

Brothers, I’d like to thank all of you for your words of support and encouragement. Two days ago I had no idea what to do. Now, with your help, I have some ideas that look like a plan. I just need God’s grace.

I also want to thank the brother who sent me this private message, along with his kind permission to post it here. I believe his advice will be helpful for everyone who is in my shoes.

I would suggest one simple 'operating instruction' from the mouth of Jesus himself: "What God has put together, let no man tear apart." God put you and your wife together. Just be simple and love her. Don't stress about the Local Church thing. Just be a simple, grateful redeemed sinner who has been rescued by the love of God in Christ Jesus. And God in His wisdom put you with your wife. So my advice is to respect that, and respect that for now anyway God has allowed her to be in the Local Church.

My point is don't focus on your wife's relationship with the Local Church, but rather focus on what you can control, which is your relationship with your wife. If you work at it every day it will be "heaven" to you, even if she is in the Local Church. If she is there, then you are there. Why? Because you are with her, and God gave you an unbreakable love for her. God put you together. Nothing will break this.

If your wife sees, every day, evidence of your great love for her in Christ Jesus then she will be happy. Let God deal with the Local Church situation. God put her, or allowed her anyway, to be there. God put you together. So just seek God there and he'll bless you.

Peace to you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

p.s. As far as prayer I find that we too often ask for 'our' things, instead of asking what does God want. If we find ourselves seeking what God wants ("seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness") then God can easily deal with our needs and our situations. If your prayers begin to echo the prayers of the interceding Jesus in heaven, then you will begin to see the earth move around you. Note the impact Jesus had on the earth. Anyone can can have that impact if they simply seek the Father's will. Forget about you, your wife, the Local Church. Seek God's kingdom. You will be astonished at what happens. God will surprise you. He loves to bless His children!

God bless you all.
InChristAlone

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

Brothers, I’d like to thank all of you for your words of support and encouragement. Two days ago I had no idea what to do. Now, with your help, I have some ideas that look like a plan. I just need God’s grace.

I also want to thank the brother who sent me this private message, along with his kind permission to post it here. I believe his advice will be helpful for everyone who is in my shoes.

So what I'm hearing is, your solution is : get out of your mind and turn to your spirit ; make kids ; and go on with Christ and the church ; prayer will empower you ; pretending will sustain you.

Good luck with that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So what I'm hearing is, your solution is : get out of your mind and turn to your spirit ; make kids ; and go on with Christ and the church ; prayer will empower you ; pretending will sustain you.

Good luck with that.

Wow awareness, you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

You just jumped all over the poor guy.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow awareness, you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

You just jumped all over the poor guy.

That's all right. I love awareness, and I am glad he can't read my thoughts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

That's all right. I love awareness, and I am glad he can't read my thoughts.

Yeah he's a great guy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow awareness, you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

You just jumped all over the poor guy.

I know, I went off half cocked. Maxima mea culpa. But just this week sister Dancing shared how a bro committed suicide, and all the elders did to help was to tell him to turn to Christ.

And I felt that that's what our bro was being advised to do.

So I spelled it out in LC lingo ... except the pretense part ... on second thought ... there's prolly plenty of pretending going in the local church.

Sorry if I sounded mean. I can be an idiot sometimes.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know, I went off half cocked. Maxima mea culpa. But just this week sister Dancing shared how a bro committed suicide, and all the elders did to help was to tell him to turn to Christ.

And I felt that that's what our bro was being advised to do.

So I spelled it out in LC lingo ... except the pretense part ... on second thought ... there's prolly plenty of pretending going in the local church.

Sorry if I sounded mean. I can be an idiot sometimes.

Brother, you sounded frank, not mean to me. I see your point.

I am really grateful to all brothers for their advice. It might seem vague but it's not. They told me about their experience. They shared their points of view. And they were wise enough not to tell me "Hey bro, we have a clear plan for ya. Do A first, then - B, C, and D, and then you will succeed." We are all different. Someone's perfect plan may not work out for me.

My goal is to open my wife's eyes, pull her out of the cult, and bring her to Christ. That's not an easy task because I must be there, too. But when there is a will, there is a way. I know it will take lots of inner and outer work. But if God’s will and mine are one, why should I give up? I am going to get a notepad, collect information, ask my wife lots of questions, and then draw conclusions. And of course, I will need to pray more. To pull off the plan, I have to become something else than I am now. To open the "door", I need to obtain the key first. Will I be able to get it, I do not know. The journey looks challenging, but the reward is worth the effort.

I want to share another message that I received from the brother. I have been touched, and I hope that people who are in my shoes will be inspired as well.

The Lord gave me three words for you. the first was from Luke 2.

13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

Our job as Christians is to see, by faith, what those angels saw. To see the glory of God, to praise Him, and to announce the good news. Just ask God to show you His glory. He will show it to you. It will change your life forever. Suddenly everything will make sense. Even your wife being in the Local Church!

The second word is also from Luke, from chapter 4.

14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

That anointing, that power of the Spirit is fully yours today. Just focus on God. Make this focus your life. If you seek first this kingdom then God will take care of everything else. Beyond your relationship with God, your relationship with your wife is the second most important thing in your life. Just be "one" with her. She is the companion God gave you. God gave you the power to be the companion that she has always wanted. It is you. You are the husband God gave to her. Be that man. If you have respect for God (and I know that you do) you will be that man.

The third verse is from Acts 10. Peter is speaking to Cornelius.

36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

This power to do good and heal those around you is now yours and is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. God has given you the right Spirit, and has put people all around you, including (importantly) your wife. Just be the man that God wants you to be. Believe me, God can deal with the Local Church, and what is going on there. God can do anything. Be at peace!

Thanks again to all the brothers.

[InChristAlone]

I have just received this email from another brother. I want to thank him and also share his wonderful message. I know, brothers, you may not need it. You have solved your problem. So I am doing it for people who may find themselves in my situation.

Always bring things to the Lord in prayer and in all things seek his will and he'll give you wisdom and put words into your mouth when you speak to your wife.

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.

I gave you my experience as something to draw from, but my situation could be totally different God will lead you and your wife to the truth! His word says so.


John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.



God Bless!

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

So what I'm hearing is, your solution is : get out of your mind and turn to your spirit ; make kids ; and go on with Christ and the church ; prayer will empower you ; pretending will sustain you.

Good luck with that.

Have I announced my solution?

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

In the situation you are in make sure you don't make any. You're in a pickle enough already.

awareness, you are right, but we still want to have kids. I'll leave it to the Lord.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother, this matter of denominations is a big deception which strikes at the core of their existence. After decades of dealing with this, I came to the conclusion that what makes a "denomination" is not a name, but a controlling headquarters, which LSM is. How can they claim to not have a name, when they sued my old "church in Columbus" over the rights to that name? What hypocrisy is that?

Ohio, I agree with you. The Local Church is a denomination in its own right, the denomination of Witness Lee. When they say they do not have any hierarchy, it doesn't look plausible to me. What about their elders, responsible brothers, full-timers and WL on the top of this structure? Isn't it some kind of hierarchy? When I pointed this issue to my wife, she said, “We are all equal. We are all brothers and sisters, nobody is higher than anybody else.” But then... why do they collect money so that some of these equal brothers to get a salary? They seem to be doing a priest’s job.

Originally Posted by Ohio

After studying much church history, I learned that these teachings of distorted oneness have been some of the most destructive of all...

Proper Biblical oneness emphasizes our relationship with God and those around us. Corinthians tells us it is "many members, but one body," which was the local church in Corinth. Lee convinced us it was "many churches, but one body," which could only be realized in his ministry at LSM. Thus your relationship with others was far less significant than your relationship "with the ministry." This one error alone explains why their is so little love in that program, and how they can sue anyone who disagrees.

That’s a very good point.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Read what the apostle Paul says about love in I Cor 13, and the lack thereof. I no longer believe that the Recovery even cares about spiritual growth. It is all about commitment to their program. Over the years the leaders have also changed. All of those who were genuinely spiritual have been either quarantined or left voluntarily because of what was happening.

1 Corinthians 13

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I place all the responsibility on the evil workers. Paul call them "dogs." As you say, nearly all the saints I have ever known were genuinely precious.

I have never met the evil workers. Maybe they are in the headquarters. But I do not see a way for the genuinely precious saints to know the truth and leave this organization... Unless bro Ed, bro Ron and Co. tell them “We were wrong.”

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just a suggestion ... please do not use the word "cult."

Maybe not at the very beginning. Ideally, I’d like it to be her own conclusion.

Originally Posted by Terry

If a brother or sister has the peace to meet in the local churches, let them in peace.

That’s a problem for me. My wife has the peace. She “enjoys the Lord” in the Lord’s Recovery. But it’s a false church, and I do not want my wife to follow false prophets and their questionable doctrines. She does not grow spiritually. Besides, she encourages other people to join this organization.