Does 2 Peter 2's warning of false teachers describe Witness Lee?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by bearbear

Sorry I should have specified. I meant in the context of when do you start confronting the brother since you said you realized you shouldn't have confronted the smoking brother which was the right call IMO.

At the time, I was smoking too, so I never had the thought to confront the brother. On the contrary, I was set free from condemnation -- so I'm not the only Christian with problems, praise God! Not praise God for smoking, but praise God I'm not condemned for smoking.

But what about my other questions ...

Is there any sin(s) by God's children which is (are) too great for God to forgive? Too horrible for the sacrifice of His Son on the cross? Too grave that God would be forced to send His child to the lake of fire?

Put on one of your hats and answer that. I'd like to know, since you seem to disagree with all my other beliefs on salvation.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At the time, I was smoking too, so I never had the thought to confront the brother. On the contrary, I was set free from condemnation -- so I'm not the only Christian with problems, praise God! Not praise God for smoking, but praise God I'm not condemned for smoking.

But what about my other questions ...

Is there any sin(s) by God's children which is (are) too great for God to forgive? Too horrible for the sacrifice of His Son on the cross? Too grave that God would be forced to send His child to the lake of fire?

Put on one of your hats and answer that. I'd like to know, since you seem to disagree with all my other beliefs on salvation.

I believe that all sins can be forgiven after the person confesses and repents of the sin and asks for forgiveness.

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In the case of unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and taking the mark of the beast, I believe at that point the person's heart is so hard that it is impossible for them to repent since only the Holy Spirit can convict someone to repentance-- so it's kinda self fulfilling.

So someone who is afraid he/she has committed the unforgivable sin should never worry because if they are repenting/confessing it then they haven't committed it.

Now if the person has committed the sin in an ongoing manner without repentance then that is a different story. After Jesus told the woman who committed adultery "your sins are forgiven", he also added "go and sin no more". Jesus put the burden on her to stop whatever affair she was having.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by bearbear

In the case of unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and taking the mark of the beast, I believe at that point the person's heart is so hard that it is impossible for them to repent since only the Holy Spirit can convict someone to repentance-- so it's kinda self fulfilling.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit precludes any repentance as you have indicated. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as I understand it, is to condemn the Spirit of God for all the good He does, and then give all the credit and the glory to Satan.

Taking the "mark of the beast" is another matter. Unfortunately I think too many Christians will take this mark out of necessity or ignorance. I hope I am wrong. Revelations speak of "taking the mark and worshiping the beast and his image." That is a huge difference. I have always imagined Christians repenting ("coming to themselves, like the prodigal son") during this time, and removing the mark from their hand or forehead.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit precludes any repentance as you have indicated. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as I understand it, is to condemn the Spirit of God for all the good He does, and then give all the credit and the glory to Satan.

Taking the "mark of the beast" is another matter. Unfortunately I think too many Christians will take this mark out of necessity or ignorance. I hope I am wrong. Revelations speak of "taking the mark and worshiping the beast and his image." That is a huge difference. I have always imagined Christians repenting ("coming to themselves, like the prodigal son") during this time, and removing the mark from their hand or forehead.

I've heard all sorts of theories on the mark of the beast. All I can say is I would still by all means necessary not take the mark!

On the topic of God's forgiveness, did you know some bible scholars say that the fallen angels tried to repent but God wouldn't forgive them?

2 Peter 2:4 alludes to this
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Peter was making a reference to the book of Enoch which was read by all the NT writers and Jews at that time. In the book of Enoch, the fallen angels who had sex with the women on earth gave birth to the Nephilim, or giants. These angels realize they have sinned and ask Enoch to petition God for forgiveness. Enoch brings the petition to God but Yahweh will have none of it and chooses not to forgive the fallen angels.

Jude also alludes to this and quotes Enoch in two places:

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Jude 1:14
It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

The topic of the Nephilim is interesting because it would explain why God commanded the children of Israel to commit genocide on the Cannanites, even ordering that the infants would be killed. The theory is that the Canaanites were not fully human but had fallen angel DNA and thus were beyond redemption. And that's why there were giants like Goliath in David's time.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by bearbear

I've heard all sorts of theories on the mark of the beast. All I can say is I would still by all means necessary not take the mark!

On the topic of God's forgiveness, did you know some bible scholars say that the fallen angels tried to repent but God wouldn't forgive them?

2 Peter 2:4 alludes to this
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Peter was making a reference to the book of Enoch which was read by all the NT writers and Jews at that time. In the book of Enoch, the fallen angels who had sex with the women on earth producing the Nephilim, or giants asked Enoch to petition God for forgiveness. Enoch brings the petition to God but Yahweh will have none of it and chooses not to forgive the fallen angels.

Jude also alludes to this and quotes Enoch in two places:

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Jude 1:14
It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

God never sent His Son to become an angel, and to die for fallen angelic sinners.

In this regard, it really is the law of God that condemns us for our sins. God is the righteous judge who administrates the penalty for sin acc. to the law. Our repentance for sin, no matter how sincere and heartfelt, actually would mean nothing to God. It is our identification with His Son, the Lamb of god, thru faith, which releases us from the penalty of sin. It is strictly a legal matter when it comes to sins and the law.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Ohio

God never sent His Son to become an angel, and to die for fallen angelic sinners.

My understanding also is that the angels have perfect knowledge and by spending time in the undiluted presence of God, they knew exactly what they were turning against so they have no excuse for turning to sin and rebelling against God. Humans on the other hand all have to look through a mirror dimly. Plus we are God's children and He loves us like family so Jesus came and died for us.

Originally Posted by Ohio

In this regard, it really is the law of God that condemns us for our sins. God is the righteous judge who administrates the penalty for sin acc. to the law. Our repentance for sin, no matter how sincere and heartfelt, actually would mean nothing to God. It is our identification with His Son, the Lamb of god, thru faith, which releases us from the penalty of sin. It is strictly a legal matter when it comes to sins and the law.

How would you respond to the verses here?

http://christianity.stackexchange.co...-for-salvation

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by bearbear

My understanding also is that the angels have perfect knowledge and by spending time in the undiluted presence of God, they knew exactly what they were turning against so they have no excuse for turning to sin and rebelling against God. Humans on the other hand all have to look through a mirror dimly. Plus we are God's children and He loves us like family so Jesus came and died for us.



How would you respond to the verses here?

http://christianity.stackexchange.co...-for-salvation

There are more than a dozen verses there, and I agree with them all.