Does 2 Peter 2's warning of false teachers describe Witness Lee?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by bearbear

Hi OBW, I can see where my statement about Witness Lee leading people to hell would have been confusing and I should have expounded on it, but I was afraid of getting side-tracked.

I have found that there are certain types of people that tend to jump to condemning others -- usually disagreeable's -- to hell.

I think hell is a side-track. Take a look at every instance of the word hell in the Bible and tell me with no ambiguity what hell is.

Knock, knock ...
Oh no, it's Jehovah's Witnesses at the door!

I charge out the door saying, "Y'all take the fun out of everything."

JWs : stepping back ... "How do we take the fun out of every thing?"

"Because you don't believe in hell. Now we can't tell people to go to hell. And we just love doing that.

So I can't tell y'all to go to hell. The most I can hope to tell y'all is, "Go be nothing." And that's no fun.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by awareness

I have found that there are certain types of people that tend to jump to condemning others -- usually disagreeable's -- to hell.

I think hell is a side-track. Take a look at every instance of the word hell in the Bible and tell me with no ambiguity what hell is.

I'll take a stab at this I believe there are two hells. One is in Sheol which is inside the earth and is a holding tank for the second hell which is the lake of fire. Sheol is described in Luke 16 so I'll skip to the lake of fire:

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

The Greek word rendered faithless here is "apistos" (Strong's greek word 571).

http://biblehub.com/greek/571.htm

571 ápistos (from 1 /A "not" and 4103 /pistós, "faithful," see there) – properly, not faithful because unpersuaded, i.e. not convinced (persuaded by God). 571 /ápistos ("faithless, unpersuaded") does not always refer to the unconverted – see Jn 20:27. 571 (ápistos) describes someone who rejects or refuses God's inbirthings of faith (note the root, faith, 4102 /pístis).

This is the same word used in John 20:27 when Jesus described Thomas, someone who was his disciple!

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

It should be noted that the list given in Revelation 21:8 is similar to the ones given in 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-5 which describes conditions for not inheriting the kingdom of God. Is it possible that not inheriting the kingdom of God implies going to hell? Jesus seems to confirm this idea by juxtaposing hell versus inheriting the kingdom of God in Mark 9:

Mark 9:47-48
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’

It's also interesting Revelation 21:8 mentions the cowardly. This should remind us of the ten spies (who were the handpicked cream of the crop of their respective tribes) who saw the giants in Canaan and disbelieved in God's promise. Even though they were Israelites who "believed" in Jehovah and were children of the promise, they were severely judged by God due to their cowardice.

In the OT, the judgment of the lake of fire is also alluded to which is different from the Jewish understanding of Sheol (the place you go after you die):

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So putting these verses together: The lake of fire is the second death where one experiences everlasting shame and contempt where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by bearbear

571 ápistos (from 1 /A "not" and 4103 /pistós, "faithful," see there) – properly, not faithful because unpersuaded, i.e. not convinced (persuaded by God). 571 /ápistos ("faithless, unpersuaded") does not always refer to the unconverted – see Jn 20:27. 571 (ápistos) describes someone who rejects or refuses God's inbirthings of faith (note the root, faith, 4102 /pístis).

This is the same word used in John 20:27 when Jesus described Thomas, someone who was his disciple!

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

At this point in time, one whole week after the resurrection, two of the twelve original disciples were not yet believers. The first was Judas, who had perished by his own hand. The second was Thomas, who would not believe, not until he could "see" and "put his finger into the nail holes" of our risen Savior.

So this would not be a good verse to use in order to prove that the disciples, who have genuinely believed, could eventually go to hell.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At this point in time, one whole week after the resurrection, two of the twelve original disciples were not yet believers. The first was Judas, who had perished by his own hand. The second was Thomas, who would not believe, not until he could "see" and "put his finger into the nail holes" of our risen Savior.

So this would not be a good verse to use in order to prove that the disciples, who have genuinely believed, could eventually go to hell.

Good point, if there is no resurrection of the dead our faith is in vain (1 Cor 15:14). We have to believe in Christ's resurrection which means believing that he is alive even though he died on the cross-- so we have faith that he is alive in heaven as our heavenly high priest interceding for us. And we have faith that because we're born of God, we can overcome the world (1 John 5:4) as Jesus did-- and in doing so overcome death and inherit everlasting life as Christ the firstfruits did (1 Cor 15:20).