Leaders of the Lord's Recovery

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Terry

On the topic of authority something further needs to be said. Among the local churches, there is an unhealthy application of authority. Primarily when the leaders respected as authority (locally or extra-locally) are considered above reproach, rebuke, and accountability.

I completely agree but sadly this is how their system works. The MOTA i.e. Witness Lee was the top global apostle with absolute authority. (And somehow this authority was passed on to the committee at LSM HQ.) Under him were regional apostles. Under them were elders. Elders were accountable to their Regional and Regionals to the MOTA. Notice none of them are accountable to the local flocks for any of their behavior, teachings, etc.

Of course the elders are mere puppets to do and teach whatever their Regional and the MOTA tell them to. They have no say in the matter if they want to keep their position. So really the only authority they have is to blindly implement whatever comes down the pike from HQ and to make sure the locals are following along blindly without comment, opinion or - God forbid - a contrary thought spoken out loud!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

a contrary thought spoken out loud!

You're touching on a subject I have long wondered what elders, deacons, co-workers really think. Are they really devoid of their conscience? I don't think so. I do believe why some responsible brothers have suffered mental anguish is tied directly to not speaking their contrary thoughts and keeping their contrary thoughts from being uttered.
Verbally they will say "I'm one with the brothers" or "I respect the feeling of the Body". It's the system that has kept them in one accord superficially because without the system and apart from Christ, there is no way to genuinely be in one accord.
One Accord from the LSM/LC system is truly a facade. Once contrary thoughts are utttered, then you see brothers are not in really in one accord as they would like everyone else to see them as.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

I completely agree but sadly this is how their system works. The MOTA i.e. Witness Lee was the top global apostle with absolute authority. (And somehow this authority was passed on to the committee at LSM HQ.) Under him were regional apostles. Under them were elders. Elders were accountable to their Regional and Regionals to the MOTA. Notice none of them are accountable to the local flocks for any of their behavior, teachings, etc.

Of course the elders are mere puppets to do and teach whatever their Regional and the MOTA tell them to. They have no say in the matter if they want to keep their position. So really the only authority they have is to blindly implement whatever comes down the pike from HQ and to make sure the locals are following along blindly without comment, opinion or - God forbid - a contrary thought spoken out loud!

Now, I don't doubt these brothers are authorities. They can and have in some places determine who's not welcome and most have authority when to set meeting times and when to close the meetings.

I have severe reservation whether or not local/extra-local authorities are under the headship of Christ. If they are, there would be far more instances of accountability to brothers and sisters instead of being puppets of the ministry.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Indiana

...I hope we can come together and talk about your concerns and also to seek to find a way to bring an end to the negative speaking about the Local Churches on the internet....***The original post has been deleted by the author***

Steve,
Not sure what you mean by "negative speaking about the Local Churches on the internet", but I hope you don't mean the exposing of the real history - the fact that Witness Lee was propagating extremely divisive teachings and practices going back to his days in Taiwan. Lee was attacking other Christians and even suing members of his own denomination long before he landed on our fair shores. Lee was also propagating strange and unbiblical teachings going back to his Taiwan days as well. Apparently Witness exercised some measure of self control (now we know it was just deceit) in the early days here in America, but eventually the real Lee came out, and he boldly declared himself to be the only one speaking for God on earth.

Let's all keep in mind that negative does NOT = false. The Bible is FULL of negative speaking - sometimes it speaks negatively against the words and actions of God's people, sometimes it speaks negatively against a certain leader/leaders. What do we see in the speaking of the Prophets? The vast majority of their speaking was "negative" against God's people and or the leaders. Look at the record of the speaking of the Lord Jesus in the Gospels. When he wasn't busy healing the sick, feeding the poor, eating with sinners and preaching the good news, he was clearing out the temple with a whip and calling the leaders a brood of vipers and sons of the devil! Much of the New Testament was a record of the apostles dealing with the "negative" side of the Church. The simple fact is that negative things will plague us until the end. There will be sin and sinners until the end - when God throws it all into the Lake of Fire.

But one more thing to keep in mind...negative speaking coming from man is not necessarily negative speaking coming from God: "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God" (1 John 4:1) Tragically, this kind of testing was not encouraged in the Local Church. In fact Witness Lee pretty much forbade it. This is exactly what Steve is dealing with in Ron Kangas. He is only capable of testing the spirits of those who might test the person and work of Witness Lee and/or the religious system he established. Thus, those who follow the person and work of Witness Lee inevitably end up in the category of those who "measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding" (2 Cor 10:12) May God have mercy.

[Indiana]

Whether it's Ron Kangas or local brothers, any speaking such as mine or yours is considered negative; so to their ears I use the term "negative speaking". Much of the speaking on the forum is with a positive end in view. And, every type of perceived "negative" speaking on the forum would at least be diminished thru "coming together" and the brothers making at least general public concessions concerning the veracity of several of our concerns.

They should make specific concessions over specific concerns; but to get general concessions is a start. For example, they should have the integrity to admit the fact that

1) Philip Lee was a huge factor in causing turmoil and division in the Local Churches.

that

2) Co-workers did cover up his sins in the office and his abusive and divisive behavior among churches.

that

3) Leaving him out of "official" accounts of Local Church history is a travesty, as is the casting of blame on others, who were moved with righteous indignation to stop the tide of evil in the churches.

trav·es·ty

1. false representation: a distorted or debased version of something
It was a kangaroo court, a travesty of justice. Encarta ® World English Dictionary ©


4)
5)
6)
etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Indiana

They should make specific concessions over specific concerns, but to get general concessions over specific concerns is a start. For example, they should have the integrity to admit the fact that

1) Philip Lee was a huge factor in causing turmoil and division in the Local Churches.

2) That co-workers did cover over his sins in the office and his abusive and divisive behavior among churches.

3) That leaving him out of "official" accounts of Local Church history is a travesty.

While I agree with you that LSM should make specific concessions over specific concerns, they never will. That would open up a bucket of worms like no other, and their whole house of cards would come crashing down. Their integrity is superseded by their own existence.

What if someone like that new poster Lisbon, who was in the Recovery for 41 years, found out that Witness Lee lied about John Ingalls to coverup the fact that his son Philip was molesting the female volunteer help at the Living Stream ministry offices on Ball Road.

"No, Mr. Isitt, there will be no concessions forthcoming from LSM."