Was Day Star poor judgment or fraud?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

What do you think about merchandising? Notice that Mark 11:16 says that Jesus "would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts." What would Jesus think of the incessant merchandising activities of Lee and his South American counterpart Dong?

My sense is that these were indeed repentant, "converted", born-again brothers, who got bit by the "spirit of Simon Magus", and began to desire to convert genuine Christian seeking into pecuniary relations (i.e. merchandising). Daystar is a very good example of this. But it is clearly not the only example.

The most recent schism, of LSM & GLA & Arvore da Vida, seems to be about merchandising rights, if it is about anything. And my distant remembrance of LSM was that they were rather "laissez faire" (live and let live) until someone touched the cash cow. Suddenly you saw the other side, the stern one.

Rather than being a control freak, maybe Lee was a nice, pleasant, mellow, forebearing brother, as long as the money kept flowing in to Anaheim. When I was meeting there in one of the local churches, he certainly seemed fixated on numbers.

Lee was a failure at business time and time again, but came to realize that he had a captive market, and so, became a success at fleecing the sheep. Daystar wasn't the only time he "took their virginity."

Premeditated fleecing makes him a con man.

Making a belt of gold and getting caught trying to smuggle it into Taipei reveals that long before Lee came to America he had dishonesty & malice in his heart.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Lee was a failure at business time and time again, but came to realize that he had a captive market, and so, became a success at fleecing the sheep. Daystar wasn't the only time he "took their virginity."

Premeditated fleecing makes him a con man.

Making a belt of gold and getting caught trying to smuggle it into Taipei reveals that long before Lee came to America he had dishonesty & malice in his heart.

You may be right. Madoff made his con a lifetime con. If WL was a con man it was a lifetime con. That will be for the Lord to judge. BTW do we get to spectate during the judgment? I mean will we observe how this all plays out at the Lord's throne of judgment?

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

do we get to spectate during the judgment? ...will we observe how this all plays out at the Lord's throne of judgment?

I think we do more than spectate. I think we testify. See Matthew 18:31, for instance: "When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened."

That is the reason that this forum exists: it is an attempt to tell everything that happened. I met with the LCs for years and never even heard the word Daystar. I did hear occasional remarks about "storms" and "turmoils". Once, when I was with two brothers, and one made passing reference of this, I asked to what he referred. He looked at the floor, said, "We don't talk about that", and the other looked away and said nothing.

This is "the age of man", when we can play make-believe. When the "day of the Lord" comes, I don't think it will be that easy to sustain our illusions.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

That is the reason that this forum exists: it is an attempt to tell everything that happened.

So far, bro Aron, you've only scratched the surface. You've got way more to learn. Stuff you would never learn while in the local church. They keep the sordid history of the LC hidden. And there's a vast hidden history.

Just google "hidden history of witness lee" to get started.

And I have something that would just blow your mind.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

They keep the sordid history of the LC hidden. And there's a vast hidden history.

Just google "hidden history of witness lee" to get started.

And I have something that would just blow your mind.

It would not be seemly for christians to be dragging one another through the proverbial mud, for all to see. And the Lord warned us not to judge one another, lest we ourselves fall under judgment. Surely if anyone has failed, I have also!

At the same time, if we (for instance) see a spirit of unrelieved mercantilism at work, combined with lording it over the saints and the elevation of the ministries of men, then it behooves us to sound a warning. I know that if I was dominated by such a spirit, hopefully someone would point it out before I arrived at the Judgment Seat, and gave me an opportunity to reconsider my ways.

And it's probably better, and less potentially harmful to one and all, to say, "We see the pattern of a spirit at work here", with as few sordid details as possible. Correction is the key, not ruin; enough have been stumbled already. Remember that when weaker ones see the failures of the stronger ones, they get discouraged, confused, and they often give up. I don't want to be responsible for the discouragement of the 'young sprouts'. They have a potentially long journey ahead of them. Best not to make it longer.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

It would not be seemly for christians to be dragging one another through the proverbial mud, for all to see. And the Lord warned us not to judge one another, lest we ourselves fall under judgment. Surely if anyone has failed, I have also!

At the same time, if we (for instance) see a spirit of unrelieved mercantilism at work, combined with lording it over the saints and the elevation of the ministries of men, then it behooves us to sound a warning. I know that if I was dominated by such a spirit, hopefully someone would point it out before I arrived at the Judgment Seat, and gave me an opportunity to reconsider my ways.

And it's probably better, and less potentially harmful to one and all, to say, "We see the pattern of a spirit at work here", with as few sordid details as possible. Correction is the key, not ruin; enough have been stumbled already. Remember that when weaker ones see the failures of the stronger ones, they get discouraged, confused, and they often give up. I don't want to be responsible for the discouragement of the 'young sprouts'. They have a potentially long journey ahead of them. Best not to make it longer.

Yes bro Aron, we're all human ... if we could just be honest about it, and not pretend otherwise.

Lee made claims. He wasn't just human, like the rest of us. He claimed to be God's oracle, apostle, and minister of the age, on the earth. These were highfalutin claims, making him something more special than just being human.

The question is, are what Lee claimed true, or not the real Lee.

And we're after the real Lee. Not the advertisement.

Since leaving the local church I've felt I followed the Spirit out. There were to me obvious problems. And then there was a sense in my spirit that there was much more wrong than met the eye. I had not any facts, just a sense in my spirit.

But since then what I sensed in my spirit has been confirmed time and time again, as the facts of what I sensed in my spirit have come out in the open.

And that's all we want. We want it all out in the light of day.