The LCS Factor

Thankful Jane · 08-20-2008, 03:19 PM

also (from War on the Saints by JP Lewis):

CAN "HONEST SOULS" BE DECEIVED?

"One prevailing idea, which such believers have deeply embedded in their minds, is that "honest seekers after God" will not be allowed to be deceived. That this is one of Satan's lies, to lure such seekers into a false position of safety, is proved by the history of the Church during the past two thousand years, for every "wile of error" which has borne sad fruit throughout this period, first laid hold of devoted believers who were "honest souls." The errors among groups of such believers, some well known to the present generation, all began among "honest" children of God, baptized with the Holy Ghost; and all so sure that, knowing the side-tracking of others before them, they would never be caught by the wiles of Satan. Yet they, too, have been deceived by lying spirits, counterfeiting the workings of God in the higher ranges of the spiritual life.

Among such devoted believers, lying spirits have worked on their determination literally to obey the Scriptures, and by misuse of the letter of the written Word, have pushed them into phases of unbalanced truth, with resulting erroneous practices. Many who have suffered for their adherence to these "Biblical commands," firmly believe that they are martyrs suffering for Christ. The world calls these devoted ones "cranks," and "fanatics," yet they give evidence of highest devotion and love to the Person of the Lord, and could be delivered, if they but understood why the powers of darkness deceived them, and the way of freedom from their power.

The aftermath of the Revival in Wales, which was a true work of God, revealed numbers of "honest souls" swept off their feet by evil supernatural powers, which they were not able to discern from the true working of God. And later still than the Welsh Revival, there have been other "movements," with large numbers of earnest servants of God swept into deception, through the wiles of deceiving spirits counterfeiting the workings of God; all "honest souls," deceived by the subtle foe, and certain to be led on into still deeper deception, notwithstanding their honesty and earnestness, if they are not awakened to "return to soberness" and recovery out of the snare of the devil into which they have fallen (2 Tim. 2: 26)"

Thankful Jane · 08-20-2008, 03:21 PM

and lastly (more from War on the Saints):

FAITHFULNESS TO LIGHT NOT SUFFICIENT SAFEGUARD

AGAINST DECEPTION

"The children of God need to know that to be true in motive, and faithful up to light, is not sufficient safeguard against deception; and that it is not safe for them to rely upon their "honesty of purpose" as guaranteeing protection from the enemy's wiles, instead of taking heed to the warnings of God's Word, and watching unto prayer.
Christians who are true and faithful, and honest, can be deceived by Satan, and his deceiving spirits, for the following reasons:--

( a) When a man becomes a child of God, by the regenerating power of the Spirit, giving him new life as he trusts in the atoning work of Christ, he does not at the same time receive fulness of knowledge, either of God, himself, or the devil.

( b) The mind which by nature is darkened (Eph. 4: 18), and under a veil created by Satan (2 Cor. 4: 4) is only renewed, and the veil destroyed, up to the extent that the light of truth penetrates it, and according to the measure in which the man is able to apprehend it.

( c) "Deception" has to do with the mind, and it means a wrong thought admitted to the mind, under the deception that it is truth. Since "deception" is based on ignorance, and not on the moral character; a Christian who is "true" and "faithful" up to the knowledge he has, must be open to deception in the sphere where he is ignorant of the "devices" of the devil (2 Cor. 2: 11), and what he is able to do. A "true" and "faithful" Christian is liable to be "deceived" by the devil because of his ignorance.

( d) The thought that God will protect a believer from being deceived if he is true and faithful, is in itself a "deception," because it throws a man off guard, and ignores the fact that there are conditions on the part of the believer which have to be fulfilled for God's working. God does not do anything instead of a man, but by the man's co-operation with Him; neither does He undertake to make up for a man's ignorance, when He has provided knowledge for him which will prevent him being deceived.

( e) Christ would not have warned His disciples "Take heed . . be not deceived" if there had been no danger of deception, or if God had undertaken to keep them from deception apart from their "taking heed," and their knowledge of such danger.
The knowledge that it is possible to be deceived, keeps the mind open to truth, and light from God; and is one of the primary conditions for the keeping power of God; whereas a closed mind to light and truth, is a certain guarantee of deception by Satan at his earliest opportunity."

Ohio · 08-20-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thankful Jane

One prevailing idea, which such believers have deeply embedded in their minds, is that "honest seekers after God" will not be allowed to be deceived. That this is one of Satan's lies, to lure such seekers into a false position of safety, is proved by the history of the Church during the past two thousand years, for every "wile of error" which has borne sad fruit throughout this period, first laid hold of devoted believers who were "honest souls." The errors among groups of such believers, some well known to the present generation, all began among "honest" children of God, baptized with the Holy Ghost; and all so sure that, knowing the side-tracking of others before them, they would never be caught by the wiles of Satan. Yet they, too, have been deceived by lying spirits, counterfeiting the workings of God in the higher ranges of the spiritual life.

At my salvation, I was given 3 exceedingly precious gifts --- the love for Jesus, the love for His word, and the love for His people --- who could do such a thing in my heart?

My testimony -- the radical change in my life -- amazed literally hundreds of people -- nobody could even recognize me -- and you want me to believe that "HONEST SOULS CAN BE DECEIVED?" Before my salvation, I had no honesty to speak of! I was saved out of deceit!

I prefer to die for my faith, than to question the reality of Jesus Christ in my heart.

Thankful Jane · 08-20-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

At my salvation, I was given 3 exceedingly precious gifts --- the love for Jesus, the love for His word, and the love for His people --- who could do such a thing in my heart?

My testimony -- the radical change in my life -- amazed literally hundreds of people -- nobody could even recognize me -- and you want me to believe that "HONEST SOULS CAN BE DECEIVED?" Before my salvation, I had no honesty to speak of! I was saved out of deceit!

I prefer to die for my faith, than to question the reality of Jesus Christ in my heart.

Dear Ohio,

This is what Jessie Penn Lewis said, not me. (Just want to make sure you caught that.)

I'm not sure what you're saying. She is not talking about salvation or Jesus Christ being in your heart, but about what can happen to those who are intensely seeking and very serious about following God after they are saved. The point is that Satan is afraid of such people because of the impact they can have on His dark kingdom. He uses his wiles to trick them and render them ineffective.

Jesus warned us to take heed that we not be deceived. Her point is that just having good intentions as believers does not guarantee we will not be deceived. We have to take heed by watching and praying and always staying aware of the possiblity of deception.

Hey, I just put this out because it offers a plausible explanation for why real seekers sometimes get caught in the devil's snare.

I didn't quote her whole book obviously, so there is a lot more to it.

Whatever the enemy does, God uses to grow us up. Part of that growing up is being delivered from deception and coming to an understanding of how we got deceived.

Nothing personal meant ... I think you misunderstood, maybe ???

Peace, Love, Joy

Thankful Jane

Matt Anderson · 08-21-2008, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

At my salvation, I was given 3 exceedingly precious gifts --- the love for Jesus, the love for His word, and the love for His people --- who could do such a thing in my heart?

My testimony -- the radical change in my life -- amazed literally hundreds of people -- nobody could even recognize me -- and you want me to believe that "HONEST SOULS CAN BE DECEIVED?" Before my salvation, I had no honesty to speak of! I was saved out of deceit!

I prefer to die for my faith, than to question the reality of Jesus Christ in my heart.

Absolutely, yes, you need to believe honest souls can be and are deceived. We are born into a deceived world. When God shines light into our hearts he does not instantly eradicate all of our deception. The light just begins to dawn. As we enter into a true and obedient walk in faith before Him the light continues to spread. We also have to get to know the Word. Our deceived state slowly but surely begins to be replaced with a renewed mind that can see who the Lord really is. It doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't even happen in a lifetime. The measure of light that the Lord gives us is what we need.

So, yes, you should strongly consider beliving that honest souls can be and are deceived.

I think this can be backed up by the Word of God, both Old and New Testament.

Matt

P.S. You've actually told us about your experience of being deceived by leadership in the LC on these forums until you started reading 'Speaking the Truth in Love' and other materials.

P.S.S. Were you deceived about meeting the Lord. No. Were you experiencing a mixture of the Lord and demonic influences in the early days of the LC. Absolutely yes. There's proof of it and especially in Lee who was very deceitful (even in the early 60's, into the 70's and beyond).

Ohio · 08-21-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

P.S.S. Were you deceived about meeting the Lord. No. Were you experiencing a mixture of the Lord and demonic influences in the early days of the LC. Absolutely yes. There's proof of it and especially in Lee who was very deceitful (even in the early 60's, into the 70's and beyond).

Matt, what do you mean a "mixture of ... demonic influences" in the early days.

08-20-2008, 03:19 PM	#1
Thankful Jane Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Georgetown, Texas Posts: 295	more ... Can Honest Souls Be Deceived? also (from War on the Saints by JP Lewis): CAN "HONEST SOULS" BE DECEIVED? "One prevailing idea, which such believers have deeply embedded in their minds, is that "honest seekers after God" will not be allowed to be deceived. That this is one of Satan's lies, to lure such seekers into a false position of safety, is proved by the history of the Church during the past two thousand years, for every "wile of error" which has borne sad fruit throughout this period, first laid hold of devoted believers who were "honest souls." The errors among groups of such believers, some well known to the present generation, all began among "honest" children of God, baptized with the Holy Ghost; and all so sure that, knowing the side-tracking of others before them, they would never be caught by the wiles of Satan. Yet they, too, have been deceived by lying spirits, counterfeiting the workings of God in the higher ranges of the spiritual life. Among such devoted believers, lying spirits have worked on their determination literally to obey the Scriptures, and by misuse of the letter of the written Word, have pushed them into phases of unbalanced truth, with resulting erroneous practices. Many who have suffered for their adherence to these "Biblical commands," firmly believe that they are martyrs suffering for Christ. The world calls these devoted ones "cranks," and "fanatics," yet they give evidence of highest devotion and love to the Person of the Lord, and could be delivered, if they but understood why the powers of darkness deceived them, and the way of freedom from their power. The aftermath of the Revival in Wales, which was a true work of God, revealed numbers of "honest souls" swept off their feet by evil supernatural powers, which they were not able to discern from the true working of God. And later still than the Welsh Revival, there have been other "movements," with large numbers of earnest servants of God swept into deception, through the wiles of deceiving spirits counterfeiting the workings of God; all "honest souls," deceived by the subtle foe, and certain to be led on into still deeper deception, notwithstanding their honesty and earnestness, if they are not awakened to "return to soberness" and recovery out of the snare of the devil into which they have fallen (2 Tim. 2: 26)" Last edited by Thankful Jane; 08-20-2008 at 03:22 PM.

08-20-2008, 03:21 PM	#2
Thankful Jane Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Georgetown, Texas Posts: 295	Faithfulness to light not sufficient safeguard ... and lastly (more from War on the Saints): FAITHFULNESS TO LIGHT NOT SUFFICIENT SAFEGUARD AGAINST DECEPTION "The children of God need to know that to be true in motive, and faithful up to light, is not sufficient safeguard against deception; and that it is not safe for them to rely upon their "honesty of purpose" as guaranteeing protection from the enemy's wiles, instead of taking heed to the warnings of God's Word, and watching unto prayer. Christians who are true and faithful, and honest, can be deceived by Satan, and his deceiving spirits, for the following reasons:-- ( a) When a man becomes a child of God, by the regenerating power of the Spirit, giving him new life as he trusts in the atoning work of Christ, he does not at the same time receive fulness of knowledge, either of God, himself, or the devil. ( b) The mind which by nature is darkened (Eph. 4: 18), and under a veil created by Satan (2 Cor. 4: 4) is only renewed, and the veil destroyed, up to the extent that the light of truth penetrates it, and according to the measure in which the man is able to apprehend it. ( c) "Deception" has to do with the mind, and it means a wrong thought admitted to the mind, under the deception that it is truth. Since "deception" is based on ignorance, and not on the moral character; a Christian who is "true" and "faithful" up to the knowledge he has, must be open to deception in the sphere where he is ignorant of the "devices" of the devil (2 Cor. 2: 11), and what he is able to do. A "true" and "faithful" Christian is liable to be "deceived" by the devil because of his ignorance. ( d) The thought that God will protect a believer from being deceived if he is true and faithful, is in itself a "deception," because it throws a man off guard, and ignores the fact that there are conditions on the part of the believer which have to be fulfilled for God's working. God does not do anything instead of a man, but by the man's co-operation with Him; neither does He undertake to make up for a man's ignorance, when He has provided knowledge for him which will prevent him being deceived. ( e) Christ would not have warned His disciples "Take heed . . be not deceived" if there had been no danger of deception, or if God had undertaken to keep them from deception apart from their "taking heed," and their knowledge of such danger. The knowledge that it is possible to be deceived, keeps the mind open to truth, and light from God; and is one of the primary conditions for the keeping power of God; whereas a closed mind to light and truth, is a certain guarantee of deception by Satan at his earliest opportunity." Last edited by Thankful Jane; 08-20-2008 at 05:58 PM.