The Wild, Wild MidWest - All things Great Lakes Area and Canada

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

TC demanded that the other elders at Cols Christian Assy side with him, and together they terminated all financial and housing support for John and his family.

So much for "administration local, each answering to the Lord"
So it turns out the John was not really a true biblical elder (maybe unbeknownst to him, but definitely to Chu). He was simply one of the branch managers of the Titus Chu division of the Local Church. It turns of that John was not serving at the pleasure of the King of kings, but rather he was serving at the pleasure of the bishop of the Midwest. When he found out that the bishop "had no clothes", and was unwilling to pretend that he did, he was betrayed by the bishop and the other branch managers. So what has become of the Titus Chu branch office in Columbus? Don't tell me, let me guess....a couple of dozen adults holed up on Sunday mornings pray-reading, singing and "prophesizing" the words of a man. (Lee or Chu...what does it matter). No preaching of the biblical gospel, no community outreach, no ministries to poor and needy in their community, no ministries to young people that are culturally relevant, no ministries to assist people with their families, marriages or life in general.

In a move surely to upset the proverbial apple cart, Keith Miller and the Cincinnati Community Church has recently merged with a non-LC assembly nearby them called Impact Church for strengthening and fellowship. Their website has more information. May the Lord grant them a fresh beginning in Cincinnati.

My understanding is that Miller et al unhitched from the LSM/LC/Chu apple cart a while back, so I doubt that they care very much if that apple cart is upset or not. I would say that this "merge" with Impact Church is a very positive step. I think all of the former LSM/LC churches should consider such a direction. The simple truth is that Local Church leaders are ill-equipped to meet the spiritual needs of most of the members. (sorry to be so frank, and this is not an indictment of the heart or character of these brothers). I really believe they would do well (for themselves and the rest of the church) to seek the support and assistance of an established, evangelical church or group of churches with an established, educated and proven leadership team.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

The simple truth is that Local Church leaders are ill-equipped to meet the spiritual needs of most of the members. (sorry to be so frank, and this is not an indictment of the heart or character of these brothers). I really believe they would do well (for themselves and the rest of the church) to seek the support and assistance of an established, evangelical church or group of churches with an established, educated and proven leadership team.

This is actually the strategy of TC -- he creates an environment that prohibits actual leadership growth -- while at the same time convincing these leaders that they are more equipped than all the pastors "out there." It was common over the years for TC to regularly squash others' creative initiatives, and at other times to steal good ideas to make them his own.

Both John Myer and Keith Miller were unique in that they both had "startup" experience. Cincy's website shows that Myer is a welcomed visitor to minister indicating that he has also earned the trust of those originally of the Impact Church.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So what has become of the Titus Chu branch office in Columbus? Don't tell me, let me guess....a couple of dozen adults holed up on Sunday mornings pray-reading, singing and "prophesizing" the words of a man. (Lee or Chu...what does it matter).

That would be more descriptive of the LSM group which sued to obtain all the real estate. The TC group probably got another young full-timer from Cleveland to help out. The fact that their website is down is not a good sign.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The TC group probably got another young full-timer from Cleveland to help out.

I received this news from a very well-placed little birdie...

Almost correct (not quite) The TC group got another young full-timer from Ann Arbor, MI [not Cleveland] to help out [in Columbus]. But it's still "shuffling the same deck, moving the same pawns around the board"

[UntoHim]

...But it's still "shuffling the same deck, moving the same pawns around the board"

Maybe a better analogy would be "shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by annonymous

Almost correct (not quite) The TC group got another young full-timer from Ann Arbor, MI [not Cleveland] to help out [in Columbus]. But it's still "shuffling the same deck, moving the same pawns around the board"

From "Cleveland" means from TC, one of the workers under his charge. Had I said he came from Michigan, would that have made sense?

As I have said before, going full-time in the Recovery under the direction of TC means that one must forfeit his right to determine where and how he serves. I'll never forget the day all the saints were packing a local full-timer and his family to move to Cincinnati "for the Lord's move," only to get a last minute phone call from one of TC's diminutives, "you will be moving to Willoughby instead." TC demands that all allegiances be to him and not the local church where you serve.

Btw, pawns are powerful indeed. One of them can "grow up" and be anything he wants to be! It just needs to reach the other side still alive. Not so in the Recovery.

[Ohio]

I quoted this post from another thread which got lost in the recent restructuring. The pending conference in Cleveland serves to highlight the discussing Igzy and I were having about "vision" in the Recovery.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The "vision" factor is successfully used in the LC's to instill fear into all her members. They all want to believe that they have "it," and that their lives are ordered by "it." They dread the day one of their peers would ever question whether they have lost "it." Whenever members start missing meetings, we pray for them that "it" would be made clear. If a member speaks out against abuses, then he becomes an opposer, and the word gets out that he never had "it" to begin with.

In order to properly assess the Recovery, we must examine this matter of "vision," so crucial to her membership. It is a word of great import, used regularly by LRC leaders, yet all their rhetoric does not match their practice. The rhetoric of vision always takes us back to "the ground of oneness," and what Christian out there will dare to say that "oneness" is not an important feature of our church and our personal walk in the Lord?

TC and senior elders in Cleveland, principally Paul Neider, are convinced that the region needs a huge dose of "vision" in order to keep the remaining faithful from wandering off the reservation. Hence the "burden" for their upcoming annual conference. They are promising life-changing revelation to restore the saints to their original vision. Since the "ground of oneness" has so little scriptural support, they must dig deep to uncover types and patterns to prop up their message.

If they really cared for the "ground of oneness" in each locality, how could TC in Cleveland effectively excommunicate John Myer in Columbus for having minor views which don't match his own. Does not our oneness trump all other superfluous teachings and practices? Did not Cleveland cry bloody murder when Anaheim passed similar condemnations on them for minor differences such as playing drums and printing books? The very term locality places administrative boundaries around each church, supposedly preserving them from outside interferences. Yet neither Anaheim nor Cleveland has ever allowed that teaching of locality to hinder their external manipulations on victimized and unsuspecting LC's. Let's properly call this hypocrisy -- teaching oneness and practicing division.

This teaching, soon to be bannered during their spring conference, does more to expose the hypocrisy of their teachings and practice than to restore some long lost "vision." Years ago we were taught that we were the only Christians on earth who longed to be one, and all others besides us clung tenaciously to their denominational divisions. After a long sordid history of storms and quarantines and divisions, they are still teaching that "vision." Have they no shame? Are they that disconnected from their actual practices? Are they still convinced that puffing up their members with outrageous claims of vision speciality is the best course of action?

[OBW]

I ran across this on a blog yesterday.

I’ve already mentioned this week that it’s biblically impossible to be “biblical,” but there’s something else that’s impossible for evangelical Christians: unity as intellectual uniformity. Authors/speakers/bloggers often lament that the church could truly be unified if only we could all agree on “X.”

The measure for unity has been anything from adopting specific doctrines or creeds to a particular approach to social issues.

If I’ve made one huge, colossal mistake over the years, it’s the expectation that the right theology can fix everything. That’s where so many evangelical and progressive reform movements fall off the tracks.

And in another place, I read where someone has suggested that the best answer to "what are you?" is:

I am a Christian. I practice my faith in way "X."

Lower the position of the group, the doctrines, the theology. Elevate the association with Christ. That is the only thing we have in common. Among Christians, we disagree on:

Calvinism
Baptism
How to "do" the Lord's table
How to preach the gospel
Music
Forms and traditions

We even disagree on:

Democrat v Republican v Green v Libertarian v Tea party
How to deal with social issues
What we should do about homosexuals and abortion
Chick-fil-A
The Boy Scouts
Home schooling v private school v public school

Unity is clearly not in any of these things. Even within a single congregation there is division on these.

Unity is only in Christ. Not in doctrine, creed, apostle, or even dirt.

At least most of the Christians "out there" kind of know all of this. It is the ones who are sure that they have found THE WAY that are the most fooled by their own minds. Or rather darkened in their own minds. The LRC is not alone in this. They are just very close to most of us, often in ways we wish they were not.

I'm continually dumbfounded that there are so many truly intelligent people who can listen to TC (or Lee, or BP, RG, RK, etc.) say the kinds of things we have quoted from these men in this thread and their insides don't scream so loudly that the people on the next block can hear it. But only silence.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have they no shame?

No, they do not.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are they that disconnected from their actual practices?

Clearly they are.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are they still convinced that puffing up their members with outrageous claims of vision speciality is the best course of action?

The answer appears to be yes.

Originally Posted by Midwest bro

The answer appears to be yes.

The "vision", in a nutshell:

1. If you are not meeting with us, you are in Babylon.

2. If you are meeting with us and are not completely one (subservient) with current leadership, you are rebellious.

Accept those points and you could have a long and successful stay with us in the local church life, and you won't get shipwrecked in one of our frequent storms.

[Ohio]

Hey Midwest Bro,

This teaching of "the ground" creates a generational conflict in Cleveland. On the west side of Cleveland in the original Hall #1 in the Westpark neighborhood, where I grew up, are the old elders who feel that this teaching constitutes the bulk of their "vision," and will provide a "life-changing" experience for the church, or so they have advertised.

On the east side of Cleveland near the CWRU campus is the Cleveland Heights young people's church headed up by TC's son-in-law Rex Beck. In metro Cleveburg, they have moved the furthest away from the traditional LC structures. There was even a time when Rex and John Myer worked fairly close together, especially for these annual events such as Ignite and Mountaintop. Surely Rex and the church there have been "contaminated" with some of Myer's progressive attitudes toward institutional establishments like the ground of locality.

Do you think TC is walking a fine line here allowing Paul Neider et. al. to promote teachings that Beck and the young people don't necessarily endorse or even want to discuss? These GLA young people's churches are not doing well standing up to the "old guard." Remember that team of young full-timers headed up by Neider's own son? They started a church in Chicago-land after the Gospel Odyssey which landed in the LSM camp. Then they relocated to the Pittsburg area and completely fizzled out in discouragement during the quarantine. Then John Myer got a pink slip, and the GLA lost the entire young people's church near OSU, devastating the church in Columbus. Will Rex Beck and his young church be the latest casualty in this generational clash of ideologies?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In order to properly assess the Recovery, we must examine this matter of "vision," so crucial to her membership. It is a word of great import, used regularly by LRC leaders, yet all their rhetoric does not match their practice. The rhetoric of vision always takes us back to "the ground of oneness," and what Christian out there will dare to say that "oneness" is not an important feature of our church and our personal walk in the Lord?

"Vision" and "oneness"; two terms used in LC fellowship regardless of geographic regions. As brothers and sisters in Christ, we all have oneness in Christ. Apart from Christ, we do not have oneness. When distinctions of ministries becomes essential for fellowship, the oneness becomes "we love those that love the ministry". See Luke 6:32; If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. Talk about vision. Is that vision according to the Word being revealed to you or is it vision according to a ministry? When I read the Word, that is my relationship to vision.

Ohio, are you able to secretly infiltrate this weekend's conference? It would be fun to hear about it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"Vision" and "oneness"; two terms used in LC fellowship regardless of geographic regions. As brothers and sisters in Christ, we all have oneness in Christ. Apart from Christ, we do not have oneness. When distinctions of ministries becomes essential for fellowship, the oneness becomes "we love those that love the ministry". See Luke 6:32; If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. Talk about vision. Is that vision according to the Word being revealed to you or is it vision according to a ministry? When I read the Word, that is my relationship to vision.

Titus Chu used to often refer to I Cor 12.5 "And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord." He regularly used this verse in context with the narrow-mindedness of the Blended brothers. His most ardent supporters around the GLA used this to show how Titus was more open and receptive to the ministry of others than those provincial bigots at LSM.

But what has his track record been with other gifted brothers God has placed him with? One by one they have parted ways with Titus. Nearly not one gifted worker, with his own "variety of ministry" has ever remained with Titus. Titus simply cannot accommodate any ideas other than his own. All the talk about Titus having "changed, become more receptive, respectful of others, accommodating, yada yada was mere lip service.

Titus and Nigel have been together for 40 years, and now they can't get along. John Myer and Titus were together for 25 years and now they can't get along. Jim Reetzke and Bill Barker in Chicago 40 plus years. Timothy Feng 40 years. Benjamen Chen of NYC since 1953. Chuck Debelak since 1977. The list goes on and on and on and on.