Setting the Mind on the Spirit - The Vanishing Verb

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is why "setting" has always seemed awkward to me. "Be conscious of the Spirit" seems a much more accurate expression of what we do. But "setting the mind on the Spirit" seems sort of like telling an ice skater to set her mind on her feet, which is probably the best way to get her to collide with a wall.

I never understood the teaching this way. Verse 6 is explaining what verse 5 means when it says "they mind the things of the flesh". Verse 5 is an explanation of verse 4 which says that we fulfill the righteousness of the law by walking according to the Spirit.

I always understood that Paul was saying was that when you see a great work of faith, say Peter opening the gospel to the Gentiles in the book of Acts. That this work of faith fulfills God's righteousness and that Peter did this because he was walking according to the Spirit (not his flesh, opinion, upbringing, natural man, etc). Now when you examine Peter you discover that he was "Minding the things of the Spirit" (he was in prayer when the Lord spoke to him). And, the reason he was "minding the things of the Spirit" was because he had a set time to pray.

To me, it is similar to what James says, only in reverse:

2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Paul was looking at the work and pointing out the work was by faith. James was saying there is no point in even discussing this unless you first have the work. Show me the work, then I can see the faith.

[Cal]

ZNP, When Lee taught to set the mind on the spirit he meant focus your attention on what you are feeling in your spirit.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

ZNP, When Lee taught to set the mind on the spirit he meant focus your attention on what you are feeling in your spirit.

Really? Can you give me a reference on that?

I specifically recall being told that reading the Bible = setting the mind on the Spirit. Praying = setting the mind on the Spirit. Going to a meeting = setting the mind on the Spirit. Singing a hymn = setting the mind on the Spirit.

We were also taught that "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God". In other words, spending time in the Bible, in fellowship, in prayer, in meetings increases the opportunity to "hear the word of God" and therefore increases the possible amount of faith you might receive.

So unlike your idea of the figure skater thinking about their feet, I felt that the teaching was the more time I spend "practicing" the better I will be in the game. Just like a piano player who practices until the music becomes part of his fingers (a concept that recent studies of the brain have proven).

Now that might be the Houston version, don't know. I was not in the LRC when the Roman's life studies were given. I do know that this is what I was taught in Houston and it does seem to match the word and my personal experience. It seems reasonable since this is how piano players, and basketball players, and even figure skaters learn their craft (see Perfecting Training, Chapter 38, Sect. 3, Practicing to be in the Spirit). So then, "Let us reason together".

Witness Lee: "To read the Bible, to recite the verses of the Bible, to fellowship with the Lord, to pray, and to fellowship with the saints around the Bible or about the spiritual things helps you to mind the things of the Spirit." (Perfecting Training, Chapter 37, Section 3).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Really? Can you give me a reference on that?

I specifically recall being told that reading the Bible = setting the mind on the Spirit. Praying = setting the mind on the Spirit. Going to a meeting = setting the mind on the Spirit. Singing a hymn = setting the mind on the Spirit.

We were also taught that "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God". In other words, spending time in the Bible, in fellowship, in prayer, in meetings increases the opportunity to "hear the word of God" and therefore increases the possible amount of faith you might receive.

So unlike your idea of the figure skater thinking about their feet, I felt that the teaching was the more time I spend "practicing" the better I will be in the game. Just like a piano player who practices until the music becomes part of his fingers (a concept that recent studies of the brain have proven).

Now that might be the Houston version, don't know. I was not in the LRC when the Roman's life studies were given. I do know that this is what I was taught in Houston and it does seem to match the word and my personal experience. It seems reasonable since this is how piano players, and basketball players, and even figure skaters learn their craft (see Perfecting Training, Chapter 38, Sect. 3, Practicing to be in the Spirit). So then, "Let us reason together".

Witness Lee: "To read the Bible, to recite the verses of the Bible, to fellowship with the Lord, to pray, and to fellowship with the saints around the Bible or about the spiritual things helps you to mind the things of the Spirit." (Perfecting Training, Chapter 37, Section 3).

I am confused. I was hoping someone would have cleared this up but apparently not.

1. Is my understanding of Romans 8:4-6 flawed?
2. If not how is my understanding of these verses any different from what WL taught in the verses I quoted?
3. If it is flawed what is the "acceptable" understanding?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am confused. I was hoping someone would have cleared this up but apparently not.

1. Is my understanding of Romans 8:4-6 flawed?
2. If not how is my understanding of these verses any different from what WL taught in the verses I quoted?
3. If it is flawed what is the "acceptable" understanding?

Nigel is not saying that to "set the mind on the mind" is inherently wrong, since some other translations use this same wording, but how WL built a house of cards upon this unique reading. The article highlights some of these abuses. As always, WL said some great things alongside his more extreme sayings. Also, practices seemed to deteriorate as time went on.

For example, I still treasure the practice of praying the scriptures, much as Ray Graver used historical patterns of this in his booklet "Lord, Thou saidst." But how this ever deteriorated into merely shouting scriptures or reciting outlines with PSRP in beyond me.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For example, I still treasure the practice of praying the scriptures, much as Ray Graver used historical patterns of this in his booklet "Lord, Thou saidst."

I thought you weren't allowed to say this on this forum.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thought you weren't allowed to say this on this forum.

Shhhhh! Maybe they won't catch us.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For example, I still treasure the practice of praying the scriptures, much as Ray Graver used historical patterns of this in his booklet "Lord, Thou saidst." But how this ever deteriorated into merely shouting scriptures or reciting outlines with PSRP in beyond me.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thought you weren't allowed to say this on this forum.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Shhhhh! Maybe they won't catch us.

Sometimes you guys really crack me up

Actually what is not allowed are wisecracks about supposed heavy handed, prejudicial moderation

Anyways....I haven't read Ray Graver's book in quite a while, but I don't believe he was able to give any quotes that support the kind of "pray-reading" that is practiced in the Local Church. And the reason he was not able is that no other Christians throughout history have practiced such a thing. The Local Church has produced other similar works that supposedly illustrate "calling on the Lord" as well, but those "proofs" fall flat on their face as well.

After many years away from the garlic room, and after many years of reading, observing and experiencing what other evangelical, orthodox Christians have practiced since the beginning, I believe these Local Church mainstay practices (pray reading and calling on the Lord) are best left for INDIVIDUAL practice and not for corporate practice in Church meetings. In my observation and experience over decades in the LC, these practices become somewhat mindless and ritualistic, and even worse they have a tendency to become a kind of performance. So they become very unprofitable - the saints are not edified or helped, and God is not praised or glorified.

[Ohio]

Here is the article on a blog complete with pics.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

ZNP, When Lee taught to set the mind on the spirit he meant focus your attention on what you are feeling in your spirit.

That is from Lee's book The Knowledge of Life. It has these chapters ...

1. What Is Life?
2. What Is the Experience of Life?
3. The First Experience of Life—Regeneration
4. That Which Is Gained through Regeneration
5. The Sense of Life
6. The Fellowship of Life
7. The Sense of the Spirit and Knowing the Spirit
8. The Difference between Spirit and Soul
9. Three Lives and Four Laws
10. The Law of Life
11. The Inward Knowledge
12. What Is the Growth of Life?
13. The Outlet of Life
14. Light and Life

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That is from Lee's book The Knowledge of Life. It has these chapters ...

1. What Is Life?
2. What Is the Experience of Life?
3. The First Experience of Life—Regeneration
4. That Which Is Gained through Regeneration
5. The Sense of Life
6. The Fellowship of Life
7. The Sense of the Spirit and Knowing the Spirit
8. The Difference between Spirit and Soul
9. Three Lives and Four Laws
10. The Law of Life
11. The Inward Knowledge
12. What Is the Growth of Life?
13. The Outlet of Life
14. Light and Life

Boy oh boy. I remember attempting to read that book. I was such a babe in Christ. It was over my head. I will admit that the titles of those chapters indeed now resonate with my spirit.

The reason the list registers with me is that I spend a lot of time praying and speaking the Scriptures into me. So after many years, I have a much better understanding distinguishing the Spirit of the Lord, the Mingled S/spirit, and the soul. It is not a teaching one learns from reading messages, books or popcorn testimonies.

For me, it has come through prayer, studying the Word, being enlightened by the Holy Spirit and the Word coupled with my experiences...good, bad, even fear! Is it not true we were not given a spirit of fear? With all our knowledge, do we not have bouts of fear?

Are we not instructed not to be anxious? How is it we still are? Yet many strong believers experience lots of bouts of anxiety.

I Think Lee got so wrapped in the "vision" of the church from Genesis to Revelation, he lost sight of the basic fundamental Truths: Faith, Hope and LOVE..the Love of God for us, in us and through us.

I look at the title of the chapters and I think what excellent topics! Then I realize it came from Lee and I

Why???
I may not have known him as some of you here, but it seems to me he did NOTlive up to what he taught. He got too caught up with controlling the church through life study messages, training meetings, and then the FTT.

I do not think he could handle people walking in spirit, getting revelation from the Word Lee did not receive. What a test that had to be for him. Is it no wonder the LC crumbled from within?

He was not the only person on the face of the earth who knew we are made up of spirit, soul and body for example. It is in the bible. If each one of us truly read, studied and sought the LORD diligently for revelation, insight and understanding don't you all think He would reveal Himself to us as much as He opened Nee and Lee as well as many renowned preachers, teachers and evangelists?

Just thinking....just saying..

Blessings, Love and Shalom in Christ Jesus

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I always understood that Paul was saying was that when you see a great work of faith, say Peter opening the gospel to the Gentiles in the book of Acts. That this work of faith fulfills God's righteousness and that Peter did this because he was walking according to the Spirit (not his flesh, opinion, upbringing, natural man, etc). Now when you examine Peter you discover that he was "Minding the things of the Spirit" (he was in prayer when the Lord spoke to him). And, the reason he was "minding the things of the Spirit" was because he had a set time to pray.

Maybe you didn't mean to make it sound like Paul was only talking about "high" kingdom things like opening the gospel to the Gentiles. But that is what you seem to have said.

I believe that this is talking about normal ordinary daily life. Fulfilling the righteousness of the law would include not becoming so irate at those other jerks on the road. And then it would also include not thinking of them as jerks rather than as neighbors.

Just an example. But the righteousness of the law is not "preaching the gospel" or "opening the word." It is in being righteous in all that we do. And for most of us, that is almost entirely daily living, not missionary work (used broadly to incorporate all aspects of preaching, teaching, etc.). And even those who do those preaching, teaching, evangelizing things also have normal lives. They still must interact with people, buy, travel, and so forth. Unless they are not actually qualified to do their "Christian" work, we might somewhat assume that portion of life is righteous. But is it all? We must have the mind of the Spirit and walk by it.