A Wake Up Call - God is Speaking to Us

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by aron

If alwayslearning were to continue your story he might point out that once the Pilgrims became established they became oppressive towards others (Quaker, Indians, Baptists, 'witches', etc), just as they had been oppressed in Merrie Olde England.

But the problem with "just as" is that it involves a simplification, in order to identify a trend, which simplification results in a loss of detail which ruins the ability to make a fair assessment.

I think God is detailed. Every hair on your head is numbered. The Puritans indeed became oppressors, as they and their fathers/mothers had been oppressed, but were they trending in a positive direction, or were they actually just as bad? Were they more "christian" than what they had fled from, or just as unchristian?

"Just as" is a qualitative assessment. "Degrees" is quantitative. The religious intolerance of the Puritans in MA was just as it was in England when they left and no they were not trending in a positive direction. They banned Quakers from the colony. They executed Quakers. They whipped Quakers out of towns throughout the colony. Finally King Charles II stepped in and expressly legally forbade them from persecuting those who professed Quakerism - that's how bad it was.

I think some Christians today yearning for the "good old days" of the Puritans are comfortably doing so while living in the luxury of a pluralistic democracy. They wouldn't survive a day in a monolithic theocracy! IMHO they should stop complaining and start appreciating what the Founders actually did - yes Puritans, etc you can believe whatever you want and practice religion how you want but you have no right and more importantly no power to impose it on anybody else.

[aron]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

The religious intolerance of the Puritans in MA was just as it was in England when they left and no they were not trending in a positive direction.

I am not convinced of this, but I have not read enough, nor studied anyone who has read enough, to give you any argument countering yours. Probably it was not the "shining city on the hill" that some wished it were, but I felt at least it was a move in the right direction.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by aron

I am not convinced of this, but I have not read enough, nor studied anyone who has read enough, to give you any argument countering yours. Probably it was not the "shining city on the hill" that some wished it were, but I felt at least it was a move in the right direction.

Since MA was part of Britain at the time I think you might find it interesting and informative to study what was going on in England at least from the time of the settlement in Plymouth until King Charles II had to intervene due to the Quaker persecution. Actually you might find it helpful to study what was going on there and in France (our main ally in the Revolution) from the time of the Jamestown settlement until the Revolution.