The LCS Factor

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Thankful Jane

Dear OBW,

Are you talking about the "lynching" of djohnson by Hope in post #56 (see below) or some other lynching?

Thankful Jane

Dear brothers and sisters,

I would like to give a little history of this thread. I have included several of the earlier posts. If you look at my first quotes, I expressed my concern for children and parents. I have heard from TJ and Matt that their concern is for the people, the abused. My point was to consider how to help the hurt and wounded. Simply to claim that it was the LCS does not really solve anything and I doubt if it is the best way or the Biblical way. TJ recommended the books of Neil Anderson. Tremendous work, not just for troubled Christians or substance abuse situations but for anyone. I believe I have read and closely studied all his works and have given them to troubled parents and children. I cannot recall him encouraging the counselor to find out how or what outside influence created the problem. When I began to post on the tread, I admit I did not pay any attention to the title of the thread. My attention was captured to the opening post and the presentation and description of damaged children.

I do not think that my initial posts which began with #13 were any kind of lynching of djohnson. But whenever I posted, he immediately dismissed my post with a kind of wave of the hand and cranked up the spiritual abuse charge.

I do not care what the title of a thread may or may not be, why does anyone get a free shot? What was wrong with five different posters putting up something that attempted to give a little perspective. I only brought up my experience and Dallas to say "no it was not all that way." I never claimed I or everyone in Dallas had their act completely together. In fact I declared we had a flat spot on the teaching on family etc.

When I saw the direction in which dj was leading the thread, I could not hold my peace. Posters on this forum take the actions and teachings of WL, the LSM and the BBs and come to conclussions about their motives. Are posters here under the same standard unless they are in an attack mode against all that is lc? Then do they get a free shot? From the actions and teachings of posters can a reasonable person fail to pick up on some of their motives or does that only apply to WL or an elder or an ex-elder?

Here are many of the earlier post starting at the beginning. My #56 is the post TJ references as the lynching of dj. I did not copy it but please go to it.

Originally Posted by Hope

When we consider how the children of Christian parents get into trouble in their teen age and adult years, it is important to never forget that there is an enemy. Do not forget Adam and Eve. They had the very best care from the very creator God. They had a walk and talk with Him everyday. They were not neglected and the creator did not make any mistakes. Yet look what happened! Why? Well there is an enemy.

In my life both as a Christian and in my profession, I have interacted with many wonderful Christian parents who were literally heart broken regarding their child. They did a lot of introspection as to where they went wrong and what their mistakes were. They were in great pain and most of it was totally unnecessary. Almost always there were children who had turned out wonderfully. Yet, the parents could only consider that they were awful failures due to the one child who was having problems.

I have heard parents blame themselves for placing the child in public schools or in a religious school or because they did not do home school or for belonging to the wrong church or because they were too strict or too lenient etc.

None of the blaming of the parents or of the environment in which the parents placed the child is of much profit. Remember there is an enemy.

What is worth while is to never forget that the Lord can save the most fallen, most backslidden, most disappointing child. I love the passage in Romans chapter 4:17, “God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.” NASB When someone is dead, there is no more hope. My younger brother was killed at age 16 in a hunting accident by his best friend. My parents had many plans for him, their youngest child. But after his death, there was no more hope, no more plans. But we believe in God who gives life to the dead. I have seen many seemingly hopeless "dead" children turn back to God and to their parents. I would encourage us all to focus on this rather than trying to assess blame.

There is profit in seeking the Lord to learn from our short comings and to course correct but be careful not to be drawn into the devils game of accuse, accuse accuse.

In the LCS there was a real lack of vision regarding the very crucial and critical role of the family in God's plan and purpose. Sadly, in the LCS, many parents made serious mistakes and did not receive needed healthy instruction regarding raising children for the Lord. Frankly, I absolutely love to speak of the family and how powerful the four generational wall of testimony is. (By the way the scriptures reveals the principle of four generations standing together for the Lord's testimony.)

In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all,

Hope, Don Rutledge

Originally Posted by djohnson

Hope I think the fact there is an enemy seeking whom he may devour is a given for most Christians. But this cannot be the catch-all excuse for a lack of responsible parenting. It appears the issue with the LCS is not: we did everything we could to raise our kids in a healthy well adjusted manner etc but at the end of the day many just went off the deep end. But rather: our children were raised in an environment that was basically anti-family so it's a miracle that any of them survived and became healthy adults.

Originally Posted by Hope

Greetings djohnson,

Sorry if my post gave the impression that I was offering a "catch-all excuse for a lack of responsible parenting."

Also, I don't think any would claim "we did everything we could to raise our kids in a healthy well adjusted manner etc but at the end of the day many just went off the deep end."

But I can say that in my own home and in the church in Dallas in general we were not basically anti-family."

In Dallas and in the other lc in Texas, there were many activities for the children, young people etc. I took my children to their various practices and attended the majority of their games. Others also who were involved with my children would attend their games and I went to other children's activities.

Some of the children were outstanding students and citizens. Others were big busts. I saw a few who were excellent at avoiding their responsibility in their unhappy lives and quick to blame, blame, blame.

I have witnessed some adult members who could not hold a responsible job and it was always someone else's fault. I have witnessed some terrible failures at marriage and family and it was always someone else's fault.

Just because someone who has made a mess of things starts crying LCS is to blame, do not be so quickly persuaded that there was some sort of systemic problem and "it's a miracle that any of them survived and became healthy adults."

On the other hand, maybe it is a miracle that any of us survive and become healthy adults. Thank the Lord for his never failing love and mercy toward us all.

In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all,

Hope, Don Rutledge

Originally Posted by ps8602

This thread bothers me as my intention of joining the board was to have meaningful discussions based on fact. The opening post states "I have learned that among those who grew up in the LCS many face social issues..."

Is this a fair thread? Is the level of social issues for those in/left the 'LCS' greater than 1) that in society where the church is 2) than that in any other Christian group?

I would hope that our evaluation of the 'LCS' is fair and based on fact not on the whim of someone who has had a bad experience and is looking for to blame.

Dennis

Originally Posted by OBW

Dennis,

There are many threads that are based on fact. And this one, despite the inability to nail down specific facts, is not a factual void. It is just that there is no "one size fits all" analysis and therefore not very helpful.

I'm sure that each of us had different thoughts when the thread began. That is because this is much more complicated than blaming the LC. Of course, there is probably blame that can be leveled at the LC, but it will be difficult to isolate since they actually had little teaching on the subject. It's hard to say that it is the LC's fault that one family followed the pattern of another that turns out to have been simply dysfunctional. If everyone had turned out somewhat the same, there might be something clearer to say.

Originally Posted by djohnson

In addition to being insular the LCS engaged in behaviors that most children later working through it would find quite strange e.g. burning baby and wedding pictures in front of their children, no TV, no sports, vacations all used for Lee crazed conferences, no Christmas, migrating and the overall obsession with Lee and his group prioritized above the well being of the children.

Thankfully children are not completely stupid and know when mommy and daddy love someone i.e. Lee more than them and when mommy and daddy's behavior is being dictated by Lee and his cronies. In short they know that Lee was their shadow mommy and daddy.

Perhaps it should be said more plainly: their parents were addicted to Mr. Lee and thus they are children of parents with a chronic addiction. Some children can overcome this in their adult lives but not without tremendous difficulty. For anyone who does not believe this please just do a little research on adult children of alcoholics. Interesting stuff!

As this thread developed, it went from how may the LCS have contributed to errant behavior of some of the children to the members are like drug addicts and thus have dysfunctional families to all are idolaters to stories of gross abuses of authority and attacks and belittling of anyone who offers a different perspective. Thus my prediction seems to be coming true. Concern for abused children is way down the line from discrediting all involved in a local church.

In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all,

Hope, Don Rutledge

[Matt Anderson]

Hope,

Please see my previous post. It was responding to your original post to this thread that you also requoted and I was posting while you were posting.

Originally Posted by Hope

None of the blaming of the parents or of the environment in which the parents placed the child is of much profit. Remember there is an enemy.

Originally Posted by Hope

There is profit in seeking the Lord to learn from our short comings and to course correct but be careful not to be drawn into the devils game of accuse, accuse accuse.

I've been thinking about these two statements more closely. It is occurring to me that neither of them are Biblically accurate. Do you agree or are you still of the same mind? If you are still of the same mind, I would like to present a reasoned argument from the Word that entreat you on the substance of these two statements.

At the same time you were reposting original portions of this thread to draw the readers attention back to what you felt was the substance of this thread, I was also looking at your original posting. Let's focus on your original intent a little closer and especially these two statements that currently seem to be anti-biblical. I didn't catch the full impact of them the first time.

Matt

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

Hope for you to say I dismissed your post is obviously not true. I addressed it I did not dismiss it. That's what you do in a forum. Second I do not recall beginning the conversation about spiritual abuse. Not sure who it was but it wasn't me.

Further most good counselors do indeed ask their patients what their backgrounds were as children because adult behaviors are rooted there.

Instead of being so reactionary I recommend you calmly study some work done for Adult Children of Alcoholics.

And frankly I don't care if you try to "lynch" me or target me or make up things like I'm cursing everybody. I'll still be here so please try to get use to it.