Let's make LocalChurchDiscussions Better for 2013!

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Your definition is that antagonism = open opposition. Debate is open opposition.

Antagonism is much more than open opposition. It includes hostility.

Of course, an environment free of antagonism is necessary for every participant.

Actually by definition antagonism does not have to include hostility but nonetheless since that is the definition you are using please provide us some examples of it towards LC system members participating in this forum so we can understand what you are referring to.

Speaking for myself I hold no hostility towards any LC system member and I hold dear religious liberty as a fundamental right in a civil society. LC system members could wear pumpkins on their heads and shout Witness Lee 3 times at the top of their lungs and teach this as a required practice and I would defend their right to do so. But at the very same time others have the right to openly oppose this teaching and practice if they disagree with it.

So again if you have some concrete examples in this forum of antagonism per the definition you are using please point them out to us.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Actually by definition antagonism does not have to include hostility but nonetheless since that is the definition you are using please provide us some examples of it towards LC system members participating in this forum so we can understand what you are referring to.

Speaking for myself I hold no hostility towards any LC system member and I hold dear religious liberty as a fundamental right in a civil society. LC system members could wear pumpkins on their heads and shout Witness Lee 3 times at the top of their lungs and teach this as a required practice and I would defend their right to do so. But at the very same time others have the right to openly oppose this teaching and practice if they disagree with it.

So again if you have some concrete examples in this forum of antagonism per the definition you are using please point them out to us.

I would say that purposely antagonizing people through passive-aggressive behavior and then yelling "hostility!" when they finally react with anger is the worst kind of hostility. It's like teasing a dog and then shooting him when he finally bites you.

Obviously we all need to do our best to roll with the punches. But as far as I'm concerned the main test of a poster is not how he maintains a patina of civility against the screams of protest of others. The main test is whether a poster posts honestly and in good faith. As messy as anger and frustration are, I understand them. What I don't and probably never will understand is trying to provoke anger in others in order to discredit them or the forum they operate in.

[Cal]

Here are my suggestions.

1. Post openly, honestly and in good faith.
   
   
2. Do your best to understand the other person's point of view.
   
   
3. Do not engage in semantical arguments or word games.
   
   
4. Do not nitpick.
   
   
5. Back up declarative statements with explanation and evidence.
   
   
6. If you post, you take on an obligation to explain yourself. If you make an assertion, be prepared to answer any questions about it. When someone asks you a direct question, do your best to answer it. Don't just post things and disappear in the face of opposition. Don't hide behind silence.
   
   
7. Have a thick skin. Try not to take things personally.
   
   
8. Keep an open mind and be a learner. It just might be that you have something to learn.
   
   
9. Give people room to breathe.
   
   
10. Be kind. But don't feel the need to tolerate someone who abuses the grace of others.
    
    
11. Do not abuse the grace of others.

[Cal]

I think there are a lot of reasons LCers don't post more here:

1. They are officially told not to participate in these types of venues, or even read them. So once an LCer ventures here, he has already gone against the warnings of "the brothers."
   
   
2. LCers by nature recoil from what they would term "spiritual death." Which to them includes any negativity toward their movement and especially its leaders.
   
   
3. If they do come here as staunch LCers, the only reason for doing so would be to defend the LC. Since LCers are really not equipped to intelligently defend their beliefs and practices, but rather only equipped to accept them unquestioningly, they ultimately cannot handle questions. Since many facts about the LC are simply indefensible, this results in either a swift and embarrassing exit, or continuing on a relentless path of closed-mindedness and denial which relies on word games, dodging questions, pretense, callousness, etc.
   
   
4. Then there are non-staunch LCers. They also end up being unable to defend the history of the movement, but simply see things as a matter of weighing the good against the bad and believing the good wins out. These people usually begin feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed at being unable to answer the probing queries of those genuinely hurt by the movement.
   
   
5. So what's left are those who are on their way out or out. These make up the mass of participants. They vary in their defense of the movement, but usually don't make a huge issue out of any defense.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I think there are a lot of reasons LCers don't post more here:

I think you overlooked a biggie: fear. Take a look at the gospel of John, chapter 7, verse 13: "But no one would say anything about Him publicly for fear of the Jews".

I think a lot of LC'ers know that something smells rotten in Denmark, but fear has paralyzed them into inactivity. The LSM leadership, beginning with Lee and continuing through the current curators of his ministry, made a lot of hay by publicly castigating everyone that couldn't be "one" with the LSM program. People are afraid to be on the wrong side of the LSM lash. LC'ers would rather sit and listen to the Blendeds castigate someone else, than have someone else sit and listen to the Blendeds castigate them.

In John 7:13 people knew something was up concerning this guy Jesus, something of God, but were paralyzed from saying anything publicly because of fear. Also look at subsequent references such as John 9:22 and 12:42, where people disagreed with the Pharisees' take on Jesus, but didn't vocalize their beliefs "...for fear they would be put out of the synagogue." The LSM program is to get people to be "sold out" or "broken", i.e. to feel irrevocably committed; then those people become afraid to do anything, including recognize or point out obvious truths about God's salvation in Jesus Christ, lest they should be put out of the LSM synagogues.

Perhaps the main service provided by a forum such as this is that someone can point out the obvious, and the earth won't open up and swallow them. My sense is that a lot of LC'ers will, very privately and softly, admit that their beloved "ministry" was and is not perfect, nor ideal. But they see no healthy, open middle ground. One either does nothing about it or else one risks being branded as another "Steve Isitt, Man of Death". Therefore fear keeps them quiet.

[countmeworthy]

(Since I am writing from my phone, it is difficult to cut & paste).

Aron is bringing up some very good points as well as Igzy and all who are sharing their thoughts.

Fear is a horrible stronghold on the LSMrs, especially those who have a very long standing with Lee's ministry (or any other religious (Christian) ministry.

It may be difficult to share the Love of Christ over the internet but it IS MORE, more than possible for with God ALL things are possible.

What we might all try doing as we expose the falsehoods of Lee's ministry, we can encourage people not to give up on their SAVIOR. It is JESUS Who drew us to Himself, saved us and delivered us.

He did not merely save us from hell, He is constantly saving us. He has plans for us to prosper and succeed, -not to harm us- He promises to give us Hope and a bright Future. (Jeremiah 29:11.

We have to encourage them and help one another to renew our Faith in Christ, to walk and speak in LOVE with Patience. For GOD is LOVE and this Love, God through His Precious Word, JESUS and by the power of His Holy Spirit lives and operates in us.

We have to reconnect ourselves to HIM so we can connect with one another and be the LIGHT to the world giving them Hope.

If all we do is give out information and expose the LSM/Lee, people will not have hope and faith in Christ.

So...this is my contribution to this thread. :-)

Blessings of innerpeace, Joy, Prosperity, Success, true LOVE, excellent health in spirit, mind and body to all in 2013!

Cheers!

Carol Garza

[Cal]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Aron is bringing up some very good points as well as Igzy and all who are sharing their thoughts.

Great points, Carol!

This is precisely why we need more sisters posting.

Great stuff, and needed, needed, needed.

Igzy

PS Also, Carol, we have lots of new smiley icons. So feel free to use them.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by aron

I think a lot of LC'ers know that something smells rotten in Denmark, but fear has paralyzed them into inactivity. The LSM leadership, beginning with Lee and continuing through the current curators of his ministry, made a lot of hay by publicly castigating everyone that couldn't be "one" with the LSM program. People are afraid to be on the wrong side of the LSM lash. LC'ers would rather sit and listen to the Blendeds castigate someone else, than have someone else sit and listen to the Blendeds castigate them.

Without question some saints may think, but it's another thing to speak it. For many years saints have been trained to speak a positive word. To verbally express they think something is "off the mark" would be regarded as speaking negative. Some are shipwrecked for nothing but the local churches. Where would they go? Best recourse is to go along silently.