Andy Anderson on the "Overcomers"

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In the Colton Burpo account, his older sister who was miscarried was a young girl who greeted him in heaven, yet she bore strong familial resemblance, so that he believed her story, though he had absolutely no prior knowledge that he even had a sister. . . .

I recall someone in the mid 70s who told of attending a weekend training (not LRC) designed to teach about the issues surrounding demon and Satan worship. One of the "teachers" had obtained some kind of manual on the subject and was reading some descriptions from it, when they began to read off some names of demons. This guy told of having the very distinct sense that something entered the room each time one of the names was spoken, as if responding to a call. He decided that he would not return after the lunch break.

I tell that story because I know that there is something in the spiritual realm that we are not truly knowledgeable about. I know there are demons and angels. There is God and there is Satan.

But the accounts from these kids may be real, or they may be imagined. The details that they supposedly knew nothing about may not have been as unknown as was thought. Or they may have truly not known and learned something factual while on the brink of death.

But something that always keeps me guarded on these is that studies of the stories of near-death experiences show that the person almost always sees things that are consistent with the "mythology" of their culture. A Chinese Buddhist sees things from that culture. And Indian Hindu from that culture. So many aspects of the stories are culturally centered.

But I did say "most." There are some that take some explaining away. Mostly because the expectations are not met. The vision was not consistent with the culture or belief. Or there is the thought that details that could (or at least should) not have been known were revealed.

For me, I take note of them. But I realize that my faith is not based on whether someone thinks they "went to heaven" (or actually did) and lived to tell about it. It is based on the realization that Jesus is who he said he was/is. That prophecy was fulfilled. And so on.

For the child that met a great grandfather and saw them at a younger age, since the description could be verified with photographs, could the child have seen them even if they were not remembered specifically?

Not trying to debunk the stories. Just noting that faith based on these things will be as tenuous as the evidence that it is really miraculous rather than a product of a busy mind under stress.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

But something that always keeps me guarded on these is that studies of the stories of near-death experiences show that the person almost always sees things that are consistent with the "mythology" of their culture.

The little boy met his miscarried sister and his long diseased g-grandfather -- sounds -- yep, sounds to me like typical American mythology.

[Cal]

Near-death stories about seeing heaven don't do much for me because they are unverifiable and they don't add anything to my faith. I'm going to believe in heaven whether I hear them or not.

I guess there are people who think, "Wow. I never believed in heaven before, but since that little boy told his story about going there now I believe." But I'm not one of them.

I'm much more impressed by the stories of Muslims in the Middle East who say Jesus came to them in their dreams and preached the gospel to them, and have converted because of it. Those have the ring of truth. See here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Near-death stories about seeing heaven don't do much for me because they are unverifiable and they don't add anything to my faith. I'm going to believe in heaven whether I hear them or not.

I guess there are people who think, "Wow. I never believed in heaven before, but since that little boy told his story about going there now I believe." But I'm not one of them.

I'm much more impressed by the stories of Muslims in the Middle East who say Jesus came to them in their dreams and preached the gospel to them, and have converted because of it. Those have the ring of truth. See here.

Igzy, methinks you're being way too subjective here in protest. That's like me saying, "Muslims seeing Jesus in their dreams don't do much for me because they are unverifiable and they don't add anything to my faith. I'm going to believe in Jesus whether I hear them or not. I guess there are people who think, 'Wow. I never believed in Jesus before, but since that Moslem told his story about seeing Jesus in his dream, now I believe.' But I'm not one of them."

We who are long time believers in Jesus (and heaven) do not need others' testimonies for our faith. These wonderful testimonies may, however, inspire us on our journey. Some of His other chosen ones, however, may be drawn to Jesus for the first time!

In this regard I see the Father's love -- He is using all kinds of signs and wonders in these last days to draw men to His Son. Whether dreams, or near death experiences, or just old fashioned altar calls.

Note: 3 short paragraphs. Each one short, quick, and to the point. Not a wasted word, and less than 500 words.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Note: 3 short paragraphs. Each one short, quick, and to the point. Not a wasted word, and less than 500 words.

Except for the note.

And your response should be: (at me)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Except for the note.

And your response should be: (at me)

Naw! I was just teasin' the moderators.

I noticed you read my post all the way to the end. Success!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We who are long time believers in Jesus (and heaven) do not need others' testimonies for our faith. These wonderful testimonies may, however, inspire us on our journey. Some of His other chosen ones, however, may be drawn to Jesus for the first time!

In this regard I see the Father's love -- He is using all kinds of signs and wonders in these last days to draw men to His Son. Whether dreams, or near death experiences, or just old fashioned altar calls.

Precisely! Why does everything have to be for "my" benefit. If it helps some come to the Lord isn't that more than reason enough? Suppose some kid in a very strict Muslim family, perhaps in a country where Christian meetings are prohibited, dies and is resuscitated. You don't think that kids testimony will be powerful to his family? How can this kid grow up to to attack Christian churches after having an experience like that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Precisely! Why does everything have to be for "my" benefit. If it helps some come to the Lord isn't that more than reason enough?

Exactly!

In I Corinthians 1, Paul noted that Greeks seek wisdom, but the Jews indeed ask for signs. Here he noted cultural differences, and how God and the apostles operated differently, based on their audience, in order to save some. In ch. 9 Paul explains how he even became all things to all men in order to reach them with good news.

Our heavenly Father has never been restricted to some "new way," or even the so-called "God-ordained way." I believe many people have been affected by these stories of near death experiences. Many people have been ministered to by angels. Some have seen God's hand in "climate change," and that has affected their hearts to believe. God has not only been "creative" in creation, but even more so in the new creation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Exactly!

In I Corinthians 1, Paul noted that Greeks seek wisdom, but the Jews indeed ask for signs. Here he noted cultural differences, and how God and the apostles operated differently, based on their audience, in order to save some. In ch. 9 Paul explains how he even became all things to all men in order to reach them with good news.

Our heavenly Father has never been restricted to some "new way," or even the so-called "God-ordained way." I believe many people have been affected by these stories of near death experiences. Many people have been ministered to by angels. Some have seen God's hand in "climate change," and that has affected their hearts to believe. God has not only been "creative" in creation, but even more so in the new creation.

Maybe that is why the New Jerusalem has 12 gates.