The Psalms are the word of Christ

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Matt 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

The BBs gained control by being most ardent supporters of WL and LSM. The only thing they know is the footnotes. So this requirement is to keep them relevant. They are unable to get light from the word.

ZNP,

There is some light in the footnotes. Occasionally there may be a lot. I still sometimes share things with my Christian friends which originally came to me via outline, footnote, and Lee aphorism. And other than my recent foray into the Psalms footnotes, I haven't read them for years. Yet some of them still resonate, at least faintly.

But I would like to contrast that to my recent experiences. Like I shared about how in Acts chapter 2 Peter "saw Christ" there in the text of Psalm 16, I began to see Christ in the experiences of these characters. I began to hear His voice. I could feel His love for His Father. I can tell you, it was spiritually, psychologically, emotionally devastating. I cannot put into words what it was like, to feel Jesus Christ. It was right there in those words in front of me: all the pain, the hope, the fear, the faith. It was an overwhelming experience. It was like Christ was suddenly real, right in front of me, and everything else just faded away. All the doctrines, all the teachings, all the footnotes, all the trainings. Compared to the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ, it was all dross.

Whether or not I am now too heavenly to be any earthly good, I guess I'll find out at the Judgment Seat, if not before. But I can say this: all those intermediaries (like Lee and his footnotes) to the text can now take a back seat. And if the footnotes tell me there is no Christ here to be found, I will rather firmly disagree.

Today I have a great hunger for the Word of God, if only that I want to see that blinding light again. I want my heart to be aflame again. So I foray into the text again and again, searching.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by aron

ZNP,

There is some light in the footnotes. Occasionally there may be a lot. I still sometimes share things with my Christian friends which originally came to me via outline, footnote, and Lee aphorism. And other than my recent foray into the Psalms footnotes, I haven't read them for years. Yet some of them still resonate, at least faintly.

John
3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

If you aspire to be a leader of God's people it is not sufficient to know various teachings and footnotes, that is merely a scribe. You must be able to commune with the Lord and get a word from Him.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

John
3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

If you aspire to be a leader of God's people it is not sufficient to know various teachings and footnotes, that is merely a scribe. You must be able to commune with the Lord and get a word from Him.

You get this from those verses?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

You get this from those verses?

Please read the following verses:

John
3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

My understanding of these verses is that only Jesus is the man who knows both heavenly and earthly things (and although it isn't mentioned here, also things of the various realms of hades) and that this is one requirement for a leader. Second, Jesus is the one who will be lifted up that we all must look to to be healed. According to the context of talking to Nicodemus, this also is an aspect of His leadership. Third, Jesus has come into the world to save the world. This is the third aspect of His leadership.

In every case only Jesus can fulfill these.

Therefore, if Nicodemus wants to be a "leader" of the people his only way is if he can commune and receive the fellowship that Jesus and the Apostle's are giving.

But more importantly we have to look at the question that Nicodemus "secretly" asked Jesus

John
3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3:3 Jesus answered...

If you look at Jesus answer to the "question" you have to conclude that Nicodemus is asking

"How can I be a teacher come from God?"

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

... if Nicodemus wants to be a "leader" of the people his only way is if he can commune and receive the fellowship that Jesus and the Apostle's are giving.

I posted while ZNP was giving this reply. Obviously I defer to his explanation over mine. I was just thinking aloud, in the assembly. But I think that his points and mine dovetail somewhat.

[aron]

I think it's also important to add that when you come down from the mountain with a fresh word from the Lord, i.e. a genuine and novel experience in God's Word of God's Christ, there is always the danger that you've been led astray, or at least that you only see in part. That is where the ekklesia comes in. The fellowship will test, or try, your Word and see of what sort it is.

Lee rejected this protective oversight of the ekklesia. In his schema the Church had to listen to him, not vice versa. So he opened himself to uncorrected error, which I think also to led many astray, who likewise held him as "God's oracle."

Again, only Jesus is "God's Oracle". Only Jesus is the "Faithful and True Witness" (Rev. 1:5) whose speaking is tantamount to God's speaking on the earth today (Heb. 1:2).

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

You get this from those verses?

I think I get the point. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a "man of the Word". He was of the ruling council, so he'd surely had some success in handling the Word of God.

So he has some success in "the interpreted Word". But now he is facing the Word Himself. A whole nuther level.

So ZNP is comparing that to the scribes of LSM, whose teachings are arguably based on the Word, i.e. the Bible. He's saying, Do not pretend that your handling, however skillfully, of the interpreted Word is any substitute for dealing with the Word Himself.

And if these "wordsmiths" tell you that their interpreted Word is tantamount to the path to the Word Himself, tell them what Jesus told Nicodemus: You must be born again. In other words: Nice try. Try again. Start over. Better luck next time. See ya on the other side.

The scribes and merchandisers of God's Word are on the wrong side. Their merchandising is itself a testimony that their teaching is of the earth. Just as Nicodemus' Pharisaic activity was a testimony of its earthly nature.

Anyway, I am of course not speaking for ZNP. But that's what I got from his quote, and comment.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

But I would like to contrast that to my recent experiences. ...I began to see Christ in the experiences of these [frail Biblical] characters. I began to hear His voice. I could feel [Jesus'] love for His Father ... I cannot put into words what it was like, to feel [the heart of] Jesus Christ...

It cannot be overstressed that the presentation of such an experience really means nothing, in the big scheme of things. The one who comes down from the mountaintop with his or her tales of glory may be just as mean and selfish as before. "Touching Jesus" may be all that really matters, but it is in and of itself no guarantee of enduring reality.

I say this because Peter, when he came down from the mountain, still denied the Lord three times. The disciple Judas got to kiss Jesus on the cheek! The two sons of Aaron got to sit with Moses and the seventy elders in front of God's throne, and eat and drink. They saw God and lived to tell about it, but later they were burned up.

And so forth. Many people were allowed some real access to God, only to be cast off later for transgression. So I can't pretend to be anything. My offering the story of seeing Jesus in the Psalms was for this purpose: suppose in God's Word I experience something of the heart of Jesus Christ, and can feel it, as it felt to the young disciple John as he lay on Jesus' breast at supper. In God's Word I can hear "...the voice of my Beloved, saying 'Rise up and come away.' " Then in the LSM Bible I read a footnote telling me, "There is nothing to be found here. Move along." I am going to respectfully but firmly tell LSM to go jump in the lake.

John did the same thing, I think, to the gnostics with their "Jesus was only a vapor" teachings. John replied, "We handled Him with our hands". Basically someone was coming along and saying, "Who are you going to believe, our ideas or your experiences?" And John was telling them to get lost. Likewise I will tell Lee's "economy" to get lost if it tells me to ignore the Christ I have seen in scripture.

And as I've noted, this "...no Christ is here to be found" is a rather prevalent theme in Lee's psalm expositions. In the first 35 psalms, for example, we see barely 10, if that, which acknowledge some divine revelation. And usually that is simply because the NT authors got there before Lee did. So he has to pay lip service.

I am aware that I am not supposed to judge anyone's heart. What was in Witness Lee's heart the Lord knows. If there was darkness, perhaps mine is ten times darker. But I can and will say that his teachings missed the mark by a wide margin. Lee's teachings are telling me to turn away from the precious Jesus who is speaking to me there in God's Word. But I will reject Lee's teachings instead.

The author of Hebrews was right: God is speaking to us in these last days in the person of His Son. We should accept no substitutes. Nothing should ever distract us from "the voice of our Beloved".