Help in Becoming "Normal"

Hello. I've been lurking here off and on for awhile, and would like to ask a question for other ex-members of the Local Churches.
Ever since I left many years ago, I have been meeting with a denomination. It is a good church, and it has helped me get over many of my bad experiences in the "recovery."
But there's one category of problems I have, that I think is from having been in the Local CHurches for so long. And I can't get over it. This keeps coming up in my life, and I thought maybe this forum would be a good place to bring it up. I could really use some help.
I have a hard time with things that we used to think were "worldly" in the Local Churches. I mean things like enjoying sports, hobbies, recreation, things like that. I still have a very hard time being what I would call "normal." I'm surrounded by Christians who have no problem just enjoying life. They play sports, or watch sports, and they don't think twice about it. To them it's just a normal part of human life. They don't get bothered in their consciences because they are doing something worldly or un-spiritual. They do things with their families, they play games, they do fun stuff, and for some reason I'm still bothered by all this.
I know this sounds really weird. I wish this weren't a problem, but it is. I would like to be able to watch a football game, or have a favorite TV show, or be with friends that have the same intersts, like a group that has a hobby together. And I just can't, without getting all messed up inside. I feel very condemned, like I should still be a "super-Christian" like I was in the Local Churches, or like I pretended to be. Or I just feel very strange, like I don't fit in anywhere, like I can't participate. Does this make any sense? There are things I'd like to do more of in my life, and inwardly I get bothered. Maybe it's what some people call an "over-senstive conscience". When people talk about things that I really enjoy, I feel like I have to hide it. I remember doing this all the time in the Local Churches. We weren't allowed to be normal. We had to be spiritual about everytyhing. I remember even feeling guilty for reading a novel, and I didn't want anyone there to find out. It's crazy. But I'm still like that after 2 decades, and I can't figure it out.
When I talk to people about this, they basically say just get over it. But it's not that simple.
I forgot to mention holidays. That's still an issue for me. Halloween is coming up, and I'd like to just enjoy it, hand out candy to kids, maybe even dress up. And anyone in the Local Churches remember how that was looked down on. We even called it "Satan's night." In my denomination it's no big deal, people can do what they want. But little things like this still cause really strong reactions inside of me, and very few people understand it.
In the Local Churhces we took that verse about love not the world very seriously, and we didn't do anything that could be the world. Going to a football game was loving the world. Watching a sitcom on TV was loving the world. Listening to rock music on the radio was loving the world. Having a hobby was loving the world. Definitely if you did something with your family on a holidy it was loving the world, unless you were at a training somewhere.
Why am I still dealing with all this garbage? I feel like all those years messed me up, and I don't know how to be just a normal human being. Can anyone relate to this?
How do you become normal? How do you learn to just enjoy life without thinking that God is going to judge you because you should be more spiritual? I didn't mean to ramble on and on like this but I could really use some help.

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". Romans 8:1

Your experience of the Local Church was somewhat different from mine. People still played sports (we had outtings together at the park, played volleyball and football and baseball), and many (who wanted to) watched football and hockey games together. This wasn't considered being too worldly, it was considered practical. One 'super-spiritual' brother even said "we have to take care of our practical needs, not just our spiritual needs". Actually, they often also used this as a form of outreach to fringe members too...

But that's not helpful.... I feel the way you do. I had a real issue with letting Christmas go while I met with the Local Church, and had an issue taking it back after I finally left. The source of your guilt, I am convinced, is not a conviction from the Holy Spirit, but rather a conviction by indoctrination. You, we, were trained to believe something. That training goes deep. Whether you believe or not that what LSM has built is a cult, you have to admit that ex-members could use counselling services just as a former cult-member does.

I don't know where you live, but I would urge you to seek a Christian counsellor to talk these issues through. Yes, pray and read the Word - but also find someone you can really open up to about your time in the 'Recovery', because most of our Christian friends simply can't relate.

Yours in Christ,

NeitherFirstnorLast

[Cal]

movingon,

I can definitely relate and I know a lot of other people can, too. Two decades? Yes, I was affected in the same way. Why so long? I think because I never really dealt with the problem, I just ran from it and hoped it faded. It wasn't until I faced the issue--much with the help of these forums--that I began to be fully set free.

Let me see if I can offer some advice.

• Pray. For all the LRC's talk about walking in the Spirit, most of them don't know the Lord very well. They don't know the difference between God and the words of Lee. They talk fuzzily of the enjoyment of the Lord, but few really deal with the details of their life in intimate conversation with God. They just do things by the LRC book and figure they are doing it right. You have to learn to talk to the Lord about every little thing you are thinking and feeling. You want to know if it's okay to watch a football game? Ask God. I do. Sometimes he says yes and sometimes he says my time should be spent elsewhere.
  
  
• Realize that enjoying things other than God is not bad. The LRC taught that, but they had no scriptural basis for it. God gives us all kinds of things to enjoy (1 Tim 6:17). Creation. Relationships. Love. Marriage. Family. Activities. Learning. Laughter. Life is supposed to be fun. This is even true from an evangelical standpoint. We have to have something in common with people in the world. If we come across like space aliens who don't know how to have a good time that's going to affect our testimony to the world. Secondly, if all the entertainment, sports, art and fun in the world is controlled by the world, then the Devil is going to control the message they send. I don't think God is okay with that.
  
  
• Worldliness does not equal having fun. In the first place, "worldliness" is not defined in the Bible. The term is a Christian invention. The LRC defined it as anything other than Christian or church activities. But, really, is that scriptural? Where does the Bible say that? 1 John says don't love the world, then goes on to define the world as "lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life." That's the world John is saying to not love--the part that embraces lusting and selfish pride. But there are plenty of things which are compatible with Christian virtues. Sports, for example, teach focus, endurance, teamwork, honesty and commitment, as well and many other things. What wrong with that? Paul even used sports as a metaphor for Christian life. Recreation and relaxation are a human need. The key is to not make them the purpose of life. But diversions are part of a healthy life.

Have you ever noticed that purists can never laugh at anything (other than approved jokes)? Fanatics are always humorless, no-fun bores. I very much doubt those are the kind of people God wants us to be.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by movingon

Hello. I've been lurking here off and on for awhile, and would like to ask a question for other ex-members of the Local Churches.

How do you become normal? How do you learn to just enjoy life without thinking that God is going to judge you because you should be more spiritual? I didn't mean to ramble on and on like this but I could really use some help.

You are not alone, I can surely relate to this. The short answer for me is to ask the Lord.

I have found that I now have very little trouble "enjoying worldly things" when I'm with my wife. While I'm "having fun," I'm also helping her to "have fun," and often this is pleasing to the Lord. Personal "pleasures" are another matter. Sometimes I am perfectly peaceful watching sports, and sometimes I've "had enough."

The difficulty is that the scripture sometimes supports what the LC taught us. Restrictions in the flesh are good for us. We should be concerned that our new found liberties, since leaving the rigors of the LC, do not become an occasion for the flesh.

Many years ago the Lord helped me see thru some of the hypocrisy of LC demands. Since I served with the children occasionally, they talked about their family life. One older brother always condemned pleasures like Cedar Point, an amusement park in Ohio. Then one day his kids were talking about how much fun they had at Cedar Point. Like I said -- hypocrisy -- making demands on others that you have no intention keeping.

In the past we often did not interact with the Lord about all these items since we knew they were all "worldly." We saints were also subtly taught to be spies on one another. Consequently, we were often robbed of the simplicity of asking the Lord about all these items in our life.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by movingon

How do you become normal? How do you learn to just enjoy life without thinking that God is going to judge you because you should be more spiritual? I didn't mean to ramble on and on like this but I could really use some help.

Practically and by experience I would say just be yourself. We're all in different stages in our walk.
I would say during my time in the LC, there were saints who had no problem being themselves (being transparent in relation to the soul life). For the most part, there was pressure to fit the "cookie-cutter mold" of fitting into the church life. Essentially living out the soul-life was in the closet. In the meetings we had to put on a good face while with the saints outside the home. However while in the LC homes and even among the saints I've been blent with in the non-LC home meetings, all partitions come done just to be ourselves as we are.
As far as holidays go, many I know in the LC are out of touch with non-LSM Christianity. At least the non-LSM assemblies I've met with use the 4th of July as fundraisers, abstain from Halloween, promote Thanksgiving, with regards to Christmas and Easter goes, get into what these holidays are really about. When it comes to Memorial Day and Veterans day, giving appreciation to members of the Body who have served and those passed on who have given their lives for the country.
When it comes to hobbies, entertainment, etc, it comes to personal choices. I've known saints in the LC whom I have shared mutual enjoyment in jigsaw puzzles. I've known saints who enjoy movies. As an 8 year old in the Church in Anaheim, my dad and another brother in the church took me and my next youngest flesh brother to our first major league game between the then California Angels and Cleveland Indians. How fitting wouldn't you say Ohio?

I would say for my sanity, I had to cease meeting with the LSM/LC in order to be normal and to be myself without feeling ostracized or condemned.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

As an 8 year old in the Church in Anaheim, my dad and another brother in the church took me and my next youngest flesh brother to our first major league game between the then California Angels and Cleveland Indians. How fitting wouldn't you say Ohio?

Very fitting indeed! I'll tell you why I went to baseball games -- to get hot dogs -- not just any old hot dogs -- but dogs with Stadium Mustard on them. They were the best dogs in the world, well worth the price of admission.

Nowadays I can get my favorite mustard at the local grocery store, so why go to the game? (Baseball is boring like golf!)

Btw, who won the game?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very fitting indeed! I'll tell you why I went to baseball games -- to get hot dogs -- not just any old hot dogs -- but dogs with Stadium Mustard on them. They were the best dogs in the world, well worth the price of admission.

Nowadays I can get my favorite mustard at the local grocery store, so why go to the game? (Baseball is boring like golf!)

Btw, who won the game?

It was a double-header. If memory serves the brother who went with my dad and my brother is the brother in law of the Little brothers (elders in Nashville and Dunn Loring if they're still there).
Nolan Ryan pitched the first game. A California victory. We got there as the first game was ending. Frank Tananna pitched the second game. Cleveland prevailed.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

It was a double-header. If memory serves the brother who went with my dad and my brother is the brother in law of the Little brothers (elders in Nashville and Dunn Loring if they're still there).
Nolan Ryan pitched the first game. A California victory. We got there as the first game was ending. Frank Tananna pitched the second game. Cleveland prevailed.

What a memory you have. I forgot everything but the hotdogs.

[Cal]

movingon,

I would reiterate encouragement to pray. Again, the LRC really didn't teach us to pray. Oh sure, we were supposed to pray that the church would be built and the ministry would spread. But the clear message there was that God shouldn't be bothered with the little details of your life. This belief is in direct opposition to 1 Pet 5:7 which says, "Cast all your cares on him, because he cares for you." Note the word "ALL" there. All cares. Cares about your future, cares about your emotional state, cares about anything. There is nothing too small for taking to God in prayer. This is how we get to know him.

My guess is that you are running these questions about what your lifestyle should be around and around in your head like the spin cycle of a washing machine and never opening the door and letting God sort the laundry. (How's that for a metaphor?) Whenever you have one of these questions, just ask God what he thinks. Ask him for light. Ask him to make you clear. Don't try to figure anything out on your own. Rest in him and sincerely seek his face and he will set you free in ways you never dreamed of. In the meantime, be at peace and enjoy your life. He'll correct you when you need correcting. And it won't be the kind of "I'm probably doing something wrong" condemnation that the Devil majors in. You'll simply feel yourself gently called to a different level .

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

movingon,

I would reiterate encouragement to pray. Again, the LRC really didn't teach us to pray. Oh sure, we were supposed to pray that the church would be built and the ministry would spread. But the clear message there was that God shouldn't be bothered with the little details of your life. This belief is in direct opposition to 1 Pet 5:7 which says, "Cast all your cares on him, because he cares for you." Note the word "ALL" there. All cares. Cares about your future, cares about your emotional state, cares about anything. There is nothing too small for taking to God in prayer. This is how we get to know him.

My guess is that you are running these questions about what your lifestyle should be around and around in your head like the spin cycle of a washing machine and never opening the door and letting God sort the laundry. (How's that for a metaphor?) Whenever you have one of these questions, just ask God what he thinks. Ask him for light. Ask him to make you clear. Don't try to figure anything out on your own. Rest in him and sincerely seek his face and he will set you free in ways you never dreamed of. In the meantime, be at peace and enjoy your life. He'll correct you when you need correcting. And it won't be the kind of "I'm probably doing something wrong" condemnation that the Devil majors in. You'll simply feel yourself gently called to a different level .

After coming out of the LC the typical platitudes didn't work for me.

Thanks to the lead elder in the C. in Ft. Lauderdale I was left with no choice but to leave. It was a spiritually violent event.

But then, after leaving, the real fun began. It's easy to walk away from the LC, but not so easy to get it out of you. As I've stated, it took over three yrs for me to work it out of me.

But I had to give up everything : God, Bible, church, and Christianity. I had to because it all was entangled with local churchisms.

And then I came as close to normal as possible.

[OBW]

There were definitely different levels, and changes over time. I say different levels because I recall the rhetoric that would tend to convince you that any kind of "worldly" enjoyment was usurping time with God and the saints, so something to be avoided.

I went through some of the same issues. I started dealing with the religious issues fairly early on. I think I might have skipped the first communion that I attended after leaving the LRC, but none after that. It took a year to join the choir. Since then, I have played in the band, even doing it very recently (imagine that, allowing a 57-y-o to play guitar in the band — it convinced me to go out and buy a new guitar just 2 days ago).

In fact, we went to our first Ranger baseball game shortly after leaving. Played the Yankees. Kids were too little to really remember it. But we have been back many time since.

It has been the thinking about church, leadership, denominations, unity of believers, etc., that has continued to be my problem. I rock along for years not being faced with a particular issue and then it pops up in some sermon or Bible study. And I default to LRC dogma.

And the thing I am slowly coming to see is that the key is not in just saying that the LRC position is wrong, but in seeing why it is wrong — or right. Look at the basis for the thing, teaching, etc., that is your default. Does it really say what you think it says? Or was there a message, LSM book, training, etc., that redefined the verse or passage without justification. (And be careful about how some overlay like "God's economy" is so often used as a basis to reject the obvious meaning of a passage and the supplied meaning not be findable in the passage.)

We were taught how to define and discern "worldly," "religious," "spiritual," "grace," "law," "church," "unity," and even "God's economy" such that the outcome was for the LRC and against everything else, including every other Christian group of any kind. "Religion" is just dead works, and all of Christianity is religion, therefore just dead works. "Works" are always dead, therefore the epistle of James is only useful as evidence of what not to do. (BTW, can you find that scripture ever asserts that works are simplyu dead? I can only find that there are dead works. And there are works that are not.)

We were put under a microscope in a way that always made us insecure. Always engaged in activity to appear spiritual. 1 Corinthians 3:9 and following (the bit about building with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and/or stubble) was always aimed at us by Lee or whoever we were hearing from despite the fact that when Paul wrote it, he was applying it to himself, Apollos, Peter, and other workers, but not to the Corinthians to whom he was writing. Later in that letter, Paul reigned-in their penchant for meeting in which everyone got involved, but Lee managed to conclude that everyone can speak. (A little counterintuitive?)

We got fed this line about "Nicolaitan" meaning clergy being over the laity (unlikely what it means) and we therefore can dismiss any kind of clergy as being Satanic. (We can "clearly not choose the wine in front of you.)

We heard for so long that everything about Protestant Christianity was fallen and degraded. The reasons given were ostensibly based on application of scripture. But were they? Was every negative account, picture, metaphor, etc., simply said to apply to Christianity?

Were any reasons given really any different than with the LRC? Do they really have no hierarchy? Do you local elders not answer to someone or someones with flesh and bones and living (probably in Anaheim) at this very time? What happens if they quit having as many ministry station meetings as they have been having? What happens if they cut their standing order of LSM materials in half?

The answer to these questions does not answer any question about Christianity. But does put the mindset of the ones who have raised the questions in the first place under a microscope. It would seem that they want to do more of what "those denominations" do than the denominations do. But they don't want you looking at them.

But I have been looking at both. And my conclusion is that the LRC power structure is everything that they claim Christianity is at the worst that they claim it. And Christianity is, for the most part, nothing like they have been saying. I do not deny specific abuses. We have had many discussions on these topics recently and I do tend to stand out as the "defender" of the Christian status quo. I do not defend the indefensible. But some of the things that we learned to call indefensible are not so because scripture would suggest that it is so, but because Nee, Lee, and/or the leftovers (BBs) say it is so.

But they need more than scripture to arrive at so many of their declarations. You need a decoder ring. You need to assert that "because of God's economy" you can't take that passage at face value. You must instead replace its meaning with this alternate.

The true normal Christian life is a Christian doing normal things, but righteously and with love for those around him. That means honesty and integrity in the marketplace. It means kindness to all. It means having normal relations, conversations, activities, with all kinds of people. You don't even have to segregate from those worldly people. You can go to a ballgame with some friends from work. (And you can have friends at work — even unsaved friends that you do not have a schedule figured out on when you are going to read them the riot act, er, sorry, I mean preach them the gospel.)

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

I went through some of the same issues. I started dealing with the religious issues fairly early on. I think I might have skipped the first communion that I attended after leaving the LRC, but none after that. It took a year to join the choir. Since then, I have played in the band, even doing it very recently (imagine that, allowing a 57-y-o to play guitar in the band — it convinced me to go out and buy a new guitar just 2 days ago).

It has been the thinking about church, leadership, denominations, unity of believers, etc., that has continued to be my problem. I rock along for years not being faced with a particular issue and then it pops up in some sermon or Bible study. And I default to LRC dogma.

And the thing I am slowly coming to see is that the key is not in just saying that the LRC position is wrong, but in seeing why it is wrong — or right. Look at the basis for the thing, teaching, etc., that is your default. Does it really say what you think it says? Or was there a message, LSM book, training, etc., that redefined the verse or passage without justification. (And be careful about how some overlay like "God's economy" is so often used as a basis to reject the obvious meaning of a passage and the supplied meaning not be findable in the passage.)


Later in that letter, Paul reigned-in their penchant for meeting in which everyone got involved, but Lee managed to conclude that everyone can speak. (A little counterintuitive?) We got fed this line about "Nicolaitan" meaning clergy being over the laity (unlikely what it means) and we therefore can dismiss any kind of clergy as being Satanic. (We can "clearly not choose the wine in front of you.)

Were any reasons given really any different than with the LRC? Do they really have no hierarchy? Do you local elders not answer to someone or someones with flesh and bones and living (probably in Anaheim) at this very time? What happens if they quit having as many ministry station meetings as they have been having? What happens if they cut their standing order of LSM materials in half?

The true normal Christian life is a Christian doing normal things, but righteously and with love for those around him. That means honesty and integrity in the marketplace. It means kindness to all. It means having normal relations, conversations, activities, with all kinds of people. You don't even have to segregate from those worldly people.

Christians come from varying backgrounds. Sure in the LRC accoustic guitars are condoned, but piano's are preferred. At the community church I meet with, the pastor is an ex-communicated (quarantined) Exclusive Brethren. His orientation is no musical instruments at all. Yet the assembly does have a worship team (aka band).

I went to a LSM/lc meeting in August. I heard a word a phrase of other Christians in the city as being denominational. This is where I found it difficult to be normal in this environment. How does one know if fellow Christians and Christian assemblies are denominational or not, if you don't interact with them. Does it even matter? Shouldn't aour receiving be according to God's receiving and not according to where so and so meets?
Yes, I've heard many times about there being no clergy/laiety in the LRC. There is as such and I'm okay with it. There's is a time and place where everyone has the opportunity to teach, to prophesy, etc and that's in the homes and home meetings. Where I have been meeting I find far more liberty and normalcy from the brothers and sisters. Along the way I learned and experienced what it is to give grace.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

How does one know if fellow Christians and Christian assemblies are denominational or not, if you don't interact with them. Does it even matter? Shouldn't our receiving be according to God's receiving and not according to where so and so meets?

This is as good a point to look at as any.

The real answer relating to "denominationalism" is found when you try to answer the question in the second sentence I quoted above.

"Does it even matter?"

I have to believe that the best answer is "probably not."

And concerning the whole issue of denominationalism. Is this something actually spoken against by Jesus, Paul, or any of the scripture, or is it a strawman created by Lee to 1) give him something to generically gripe at the rest of Christianity about, and 2) give his followers a sense of superiority.

The problem that I keep coming up with is that "denominations" are branded as anti-scriptural by Lee, but he almost exclusively uses 1 Corinthians 1 - 4 to establish it. But when I read those, it seems that denominations (despite having a name) are less about who they are following than the LRC is about following Lee (and supposedly Nee). They just wrap their following in spiritual-sounding mumbo jumbo, like "minister of the age," and declare their actual following of a man OK while others who are not specifically following any man are not OK.

But when I read 1 Corinthians, it looks to me like the denigration of other Christians by Lee and the LRC is more like what Paul was talking about than the amicable differences that mostly exist in Christianity.

BTW. I despise using "Christianity" to refer to everyone outside the LRC. The LRC is part of them. This is another lie perpetrated by Lee and his unspiritual legacy. If the LRC is actually outside of Christianity, then the problem is with them and not Christianity. They are proud of how separate they are from all those people that they claim to be in unity with.

Go figure.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses. This is extremely helpful to me.
If you like, please consider sharing more.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by movingon

I mean things like enjoying sports, hobbies, recreation, things like that. I still have a very hard time being what I would call "normal." I'm surrounded by Christians who have no problem just enjoying life. They play sports, or watch sports, and they don't think twice about it. To them it's just a normal part of human life. They don't get bothered in their consciences because they are doing something worldly or un-spiritual. They do things with their families, they play games, they do fun stuff, and for some reason I'm still bothered by all this.

Being around other Christians is an odd experience at first I think because the LC system is more than a church - it's a lifestyle. It demands a 100% commitment. Activities and friendships outside of the church are not encouraged except if you are trying to get a friend to join the church.

So your social life (such as it is) is tied up with people in the church and the narrative is the LSM curriculum. So after a meeting on Sunday you might go over to someone's house for lunch and what do you talk about? The message from that morning or the upcoming conference or some other "spiritual" thing related to the church. It never stops. Meetings, conferences, trainings etc are your social life and the content within that framework is LSM curriculum.

After a Sunday morning meeting outside the LC system you may hear a brief discussion about the message. "Wasn't the sermon good?" Or "I liked this part but don't agree with what he said about..." And then you'll start talking about the football game yesterday and what a mistake the QB made in the 4th quarter. Or the skiing trip you just got back from. Or how much you liked that indie movie that was a sleeper but just won an Academy award and now will get wide release. In other words, the narrative of the church members lives is not dominated by the messages given on Sunday mornings or whenever. They don't feel and are not made to feel obligated to keep repeating it over and over to each other. The time it is given occupies a segment of their lives and hopefully the good parts affect their lives afterwards but that's it.

So to those in the LC system occupying your time with church activities and non-stop spiritual talk = not being worldly. But to most Christians applying what they have learned in church to their lives as they do various activities = not being worldly. The latter makes more sense to me because it more closely matches real human life as we live it without artificiality.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

It never stops. Meetings, conferences, trainings etc are your social life and the content within that framework is LSM curriculum.

I think it's more than ironic that the end of being transformed into the image of Christ in the local churches produces people that go to meetings, conferences, and training's all the time ... with some "Oh Lord Jesuses" in between. Some image that is, to be transformed into. What a joke!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

And concerning the whole issue of denominationalism. Is this something actually spoken against by Jesus, Paul, or any of the scripture, or is it a strawman created by Lee to 1) give him something to generically gripe at the rest of Christianity about, and 2) give his followers a sense of superiority.

The problem that I keep coming up with is that "denominations" are branded as anti-scriptural by Lee, but he almost exclusively uses 1 Corinthians 1 - 4 to establish it. But when I read those, it seems that denominations (despite having a name) are less about who they are following than the LRC is about following Lee (and supposedly Nee). They just wrap their following in spiritual-sounding mumbo jumbo, like "minister of the age," and declare their actual following of a man OK while others who are not specifically following any man are not OK.

But when I read 1 Corinthians, it looks to me like the denigration of other Christians by Lee and the LRC is more like what Paul was talking about than the amicable differences that mostly exist in Christianity.

BTW. I despise using "Christianity" to refer to everyone outside the LRC. The LRC is part of them. This is another lie perpetrated by Lee and his unspiritual legacy. If the LRC is actually outside of Christianity, then the problem is with them and not Christianity. They are proud of how separate they are from all those people that they claim to be in unity with.

Among the local churches a frequent claim is "we don't take a name". It's other assemblies that take a name that make them denominated. As it's been covered on this forum before, what church doesn't take a name for registration purposes?
Rather it's the actions taken to separate that is division. Guess what just as the LRC does to separate themselves, the Closed Brethren does also. Which I might add is why they're often known as the Exclusive Brethren.

However as to being normal, the biggest help to me is being comfortable with who you are and what you are (a sinner). As Gene Gruhler once said, Satan has a hook for every one of us. So trying to conform to man's ideals in the LRC isn't going to make that hook disappear. Rather, allow the conforming work to come from God.
Otherwise trying to conform through peer pressure how "the ministry" thinks we are to act or think is not worth a nervous breakdown when I have a family to provide for.

[awareness]

What's normal about the local church? If you're feeling abnormal it's cuz ya got local churchism in ya.

[MacDuff]

Awareness

I think it's more than ironic that the end of being transformed into the image of Christ in the local churches produces people that go to meetings, conferences, and training's all the time ... with some "Oh Lord Jesuses" in between. Some image that is, to be transformed into. What a joke!

What's normal about the local church? If you're feeling abnormal it's cuz ya got local churchism in ya.


You sound like a man with a lot of bitterness that you need to let go of. In my opinion.

MacDuff





Movingon

What Igzy said is something to be taken into consideration. That he didn’t like it when I said the same thing on another thread, doesn’t take away from the benefit of what he says here. Pray, have a real relationship with God and his Son through the Spirit. Stop condemning yourself when God and Jesus do not condemn you. Read your Bible at the feet of Jesus so you will know the difference. This is all key. What’s more, it’s very basic. Everything will fall into place if this is followed. It should be true of Christian communities as well as individually. When it is not, that’s when human rulers are required in the community. And that so many Christian communities require human rulers says a great deal about Christianity, in my opinion.

You have to ask yourself,

“What is it that I want to do and what do I like to do? With whom do I like to do it, me or more than just me? When I ask God about these things, what does he say about them? When Jesus teaches me from Scripture, what is he teaching? Do I interpret that teaching to fit my own likes and dislikes or the likes and dislikes of others? Or do I follow his teaching without interpretive embellishment?

How balanced am I? Do I always condemn myself for certain things that I do? Who do I follow in condemning myself: myself, some other person, or God?

What is Spirituality? Is it something I do, or is it something that is from the Spirit that influences what I think and what I do?

What is the World? What does the word mean in the Biblical text? (Take into consideration there are more than one Greek word with different meanings in the New Testament that are translated as world in the English translations.)"

From what I’ve read by former Recoveryites, they were following a man more than God. That’s what made them Recoveryites, instead of followers of Jesus Christ. They called “Oh Lord Jesus”, but they were following Witness Lee. And in their mind at the time, that was the same as following Jesus Christ. And reality for them became what it was to Witness Lee. Their life became the life of a man, Witness Lee. And now they’re having to deal with that indiscretion. Just as you are. Men are good at laying down issues that lead to a guilt trip to the unwary. Sometimes they’re right in the issue. More often than not they are only right for themselves alone, if for anyone at all. Not for everyone.

Is being a gay Christian wrong? It is to me and probably most on this forum. But is it wrong to them? It’s their thing. If it’s not wrong to them, why should we waste time trying to bash them over the head with Bible verses they understand differently than we do? Just like those on this forum, they need to deal with their own demons, if they are actually demons, before God.

God will deal with each one who has a real desire to follow him in his own time, in his own way. Following men, in my opinion, and I think in the opinion of the Bible, is not what we are supposed to do. It’s why I came out in opposition to following “Christian” leaders. Little understood on this forum unfortunately. It makes what we are doing no different than anyone else who follows men. In Ireland, following the ideas of men caused them to try to physically kill one another. Professed Christians no less. Catholics against Protestants. The same thing happens among Christians elsewhere. They don’t usually try to kill one another physically in the current era. But they do try to kill one another verbally as they bash one another over the head with their doctrines derived through interpretation, while using Bible verses they think backs their interpretations to cut and slice.

I’ve had a couple of people try to kill me on this forum. They didn’t succeed because my life comes from God. That life is eternal life. I worry more about the one who can kill the soul as well as the body. And these people are NOT that one. No matter how hard they try to be so. The point is, don’t listen to people, including yourself, when they are a distraction to what God and his Son are trying to tell you. It will be Jesus you will stand before in the end, not people trying to be spokesmen for God, like the Pope of Rome and Witness Lee. Nor anyone trying to be such, giving them the benefit of the doubt, without their own knowledge.

If you really want freedom from the problem you speak of, you will have to turn to the Father, and to the teaching that Jesus Christ gives you, and to them alone. And if you can find others who are legitimately trying to turn in this same way, then you have the community you need to overcome anything. For it is Christ in us who overcomes in us through the Spirit who indwells us. We can’t be overcomers by ourselves. For some reason, at least it has been so in my experience, there is more power in community, than alone. Ask any Alcoholic. Power against our own flesh, and power against Satan. It’s as if when a community resists Satan, he runs away faster, then he would from an individual. When we try to resist alone, sometimes Satan will stick around, try to argue with us. There is no argument when a community resists. So also the flesh. Why, I haven’t a clue.

But I know the Bible is a book of community, not of individualism. Catholics realize that better than Protestants. Witness Lee tried to emphasize it to the detriment of the community that calls itself the Recovery (not the Local Church Movement, btw; we should have at least enough respect to call them by their rightful name that they have chosen for themselves).

Witness Lee’s greatest mistake was not following what was happening under his very nose in the Recovery in the 70’s. Where a whole lot of people were gathering together, not just on Sundays or a couple of other days in an official capacity, but gathered together in small groups spontaneously, yes spontaneously. I actually witnessed it happen. We would be doing something else altogether and suddenly, without any apparent outward rhyme or reason, a gathering would occur. I didn’t see that in the current manifestation of the Recovery. In the 70’s, prayreading was in relation to the Bible alone. Not to Witness Lee’s writings, or some composite of Bible and Lee’s writings as if Bible and Lee’s writings are both Scripture, as it is today. It’s the same thing that has been the reality in Catholicism at least a half Millennium prior to the existence of Protestantism. They believe the Bible alone is Scripture, just like Lee as a Protestant did. Just like Protestantism. But Catholicism doesn’t limit the word of God to the Bible. All of their approved writings, like the encyclicals of the Pope, are also the word of God. The Recovery has done the same thing. The Bible and Lee’s writings have become the word of God to them. Just like in most of Christianity, the hymnal is considered the word of God, but don’t expect Protestants to own up to that fact.

The Bible alone is Scripture. That is agreed upon by the vast majority of Christians. It is Scripture that Jesus uses to teach all who are in him. No other writings of men. But not in the sense of Sola Scriptura as is the Protestant banner. The idea of Sola Scriptura has shown itself to include the interpretations of Scripture by men. Ergo you have Lutherans following the ideas of the writings of Luther, The Reformed and Presbyterians following primarily the ideas of the writings of John Calvin. The Churches of Christ following the ideas of the writings of Alexander Campbell. This is a great mistake that is the source of denominationalism, in my opinion.

And I should say here, that in my opinion, denominationalism is just the logical conclusion of the divisions that Paul spoke of in 1Corinthians. If the divisions that Paul spoke of are wrong, and he certainly seemed to think so, how much more denominationalism that we see today in Christianity that far transcends any notion of division that Paul dealt with.

MacDuff

[Cal]

One issue to take note of is that discomfort in the "world" or "religion" after being in the LRC is more likely to be matter of culture shock than anything truly spiritual.

This is really where the rubber meets the road as an ex-LCer. We had been taught to be so sensitive to our "inward registrations," but we never realized that most of those sensations were of a psychological rather than spiritual nature.

So how do you know that, Igzy, you might ask. I know from my own experience. If you are conditioned to react a certain way, you will react that way until you are conditioned otherwise. For example, I used to think sayings like "be constituted with the divine nature" were profound. When I heard them, I had certain awe-filled reaction. Now I see them for what they are--high-sounding, but pointless hot air, and my former reaction is absent.

This brings to light a major LRC error: Over-conditioning members with LRC interpretations without letting the members have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether those things make sense or not. In other words, lack of freedom to make up one's own mind. That's one of the best ways to replace the leading of the Spirit with man's indoctrination, and obviously one the LRC majors in.

[countmeworthy]

Hello again y'all,

Had it not been for the couple of pms's I received yesterday, I would not have popped in. But here I am.

To the question, how to be normal after leaving the LC...I will share my experience as briefly as possible. But know it is a journey.

The pendulum for me me has swung very high at both ends of the spectrum.

What I have learned is the most important thing in my life is my relationship with God. He is all that matters to me. He is not religious.

I personally much prefer to hang out with seeking non believers or young Christians hungry for the WAY, the TRUTH, Hi is LIFE and His Love.

While I do not advocate drinking, the Lord will not clobber you if you have a beer or a glass of wine now and then. The Spirit guides us.

My goal in life is to lead people to Christ and to teach them how to develop an intimate relationship with HIM through His Word. I do not point them to an organized denomination or non denominational church. I enjoy small fellowship groups very much. Sometimes I share, sometimes I listen. We are not always on the same page.

You mentioned Halloween. For the last 3-4 years, I write scriptures on index cards. I begin a week in advance. I sit outside with my next door neighbor and as we hand out candy, I also drop an index card or two with scriptures.

I get a lot of thank you for the scriptures.

I like to read about the illuminati and what they are up to. We are heading towards a one world government, one world RELIGION, and one world currency. (Revelation 13). I have friends I "play" with. We crack each other up. I have a knack for mimicking people without being mean spirited. I can be very witty too.

This is my normalcy. It may not e anyone else's. But it is MINE. I embrace it. Way too many people are lost. They need to have an intimate relationship with Christ.

I went way longer than I wanted to.

In closing, whatever you do and in whatever you think, do ALL to the Glory, and Honor of our God and Creator. Have fun. Laugh a lot, Embrace Life and remember God wants and will bring someone into your life to minister to you or for you to minister to that person.

Thanks for reading my personal testimony.

Blessings,

Carolina G

[MacDuff]

Igzy

This brings to light a major LRC error: Over-conditioning members with LRC interpretations without letting the members have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether those things make sense or not. In other words, lack of freedom to make up one's own mind. That's one of the best ways to replace the leading of the Spirit with man's indoctrination, and obviously one the LRC majors in.

That is very true. But no less true in any other Christian denomination, if one doesn’t take care. I’ve had Protestants tell me to read the Bible for myself concerning an issue. Not realizing until too late that the view I came to in relation to the passage in question wasn’t what they intended when they said it. I have received a lot of human judgments over that.

Denominationalism exists because certain people want to do your thinking for you. Want to do Jesus’ thinking for him. We need to listen to one source, and that source is not us or anyone like us. Too many trumpets sounding in Christianity doesn’t make for normal living. Any more than it does in the secular realm.

So we are in agreement on this issue. Which should be helpful to Movingon.

But not just in relation to the Recovery. In relation to all Christian denominations. It will do no good to come out of the Recovery and then fall into the same trap in a different Christian denomination. Listen to God and Jesus Christ. Walk according to the Spirit so that one can listen effectively. The human spirit alone and the human mind alone doesn’t hear so good. That connection to the Holy Spirit is necessary for clarity. It is a choice, it takes conscious effort, to put one’s mind in the direction of the Spirit, to think on the things of the Spirit instead of the flesh. Be careful of the preaching of man. Don’t accept what God does not. There is only one Shepherd that leads to grass and is the grass. The most that Christian shepherds can do is what we are doing here at this moment. Lead to the Great Shepherd and to the grass that is Jesus Christ himself.

With Countmeworthy I say, do everything to the glory of God, making sure it is for his glory and not someone else’s or one’s own. Follow Jesus Christ and do what he tells you to do. Have fun with the realization that he is walking by your side. That will help keep you from having the wrong kind of fun. What would Jesus do? Why not just ask him? Surely if there’s any reality at all to what we’re saying, he will answer you.

MacDuff

[countmeworthy]

You brought out an excellent point Igzy. Here is what I discovered yesterday in chatting with 4 Mormons. They do not think for themselves. I think I left the LC right before the onslaught of brainwashing took control of me. Many people were in the LC or LRC a lot longer than I was but I too was affected to a point.

Here is what one Mormon said yesterday " it used to be that the young men could become missionaries (elders) at age 19. But God spoke to the "prophet" and told him to change the age limit to 18!!!!!!!". And as for the girls, from age 21 to 19!!!!!!'

I suppose they wanted me to jump up and down with joy??????

It so reminded me of: "brother Lee said...we can now have TVS in our homes!!!! ( I do not actually know if he ever said this but in the 70's very few people had TVs in their homes in "my locality". I know almost everyone has a TV in their home today. Not a biggie. Just an observation.

He is /was"God's oracle" after all wasn't he??

I only have one or two LRC friends from back in the day. When they pray, it is the same way they prayed back in the day. They are conditioned to pray: the tone, the same words. Very close to "vain reputation". May God help and set the captives FREE!

Blessings,

Carolina G

Originally Posted by Igzy

One issue to take note of is that discomfort in the "world" or "religion" after being in the LRC is more likely to be matter of culture shock than anything truly spiritual.

This is really where the rubber meets the road as an ex-LCer. We had been taught to be so sensitive to our "inward registrations," but we never realized that most of those sensations were of a psychological rather than spiritual nature.

So how do you know that, Igzy, you might ask. I know from my own experience. If you are conditioned to react a certain way, you will react that way until you are conditioned otherwise. For example, I used to think sayings like "be constituted with the divine nature" were profound. When I heard them, I had certain awe-filled reaction. Now I see them for what they are--high-sounding, but pointless hot air, and my former reaction is absent.

This brings to light a major LRC error: Over-conditioning members with LRC interpretations without letting the members have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether those things make sense or not. In other words, lack of freedom to make up one's own mind. That's one of the best ways to replace the leading of the Spirit with man's indoctrination, and obviously one the LRC majors in.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Awareness

What's normal about the local church? If you're feeling abnormal it's cuz ya got local churchism in ya.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

You sound like a man with a lot of bitterness that you need to let go of. In my opinion.

Your are confusing cynicism for bitterness.

But really, when you read the gospels does anything about Jesus suggest that He wanted His followers to spend their lives going to meetings, conferences, and training's? And to go around calling Oh Lord Jesus like they have OCD? Think about it ... and admit the truth. What's normal about that?

[countmeworthy]

Wow Macduff!!
What an excellent post. Everything you wrote resonated with my spirit and much of my own personal experience. You nailed it!!! Right on the head!

Blessings!

Carolina G

Originally Posted by MacDuff

That is very true. But no less true in any other Christian denomination, if one doesn’t take care. I’ve had Protestants tell me to read the Bible for myself concerning an issue. Not realizing until too late that the view I came to in relation to the passage in question wasn’t what they intended when they said it. I have received a lot of human judgments over that.

Denominationalism exists because certain people want to do your thinking for you. Want to do Jesus’ thinking for him. We need to listen to one source, and that source is not us or anyone like us. Too many trumpets sounding in Christianity doesn’t make for normal living. Any more than it does in the secular realm.

So we are in agreement on this issue. Which should be helpful to Movingon.

But not just in relation to the Recovery. In relation to all Christian denominations. It will do no good to come out of the Recovery and then fall into the same trap in a different Christian denomination. Listen to God and Jesus Christ. Walk according to the Spirit so that one can listen effectively. The human spirit alone and the human mind alone doesn’t hear so good. That connection to the Holy Spirit is necessary for clarity. It is a choice, it takes conscious effort, to put one’s mind in the direction of the Spirit, to think on the things of the Spirit instead of the flesh. Be careful of the preaching of man. Don’t accept what God does not. There is only one Shepherd that leads to grass and is the grass. The most that Christian shepherds can do is what we are doing here at this moment. Lead to the Great Shepherd and to the grass that is Jesus Christ himself.

With Countmeworthy I say, do everything to the glory of God, making sure it is for his glory and not someone else’s or one’s own. Follow Jesus Christ and do what he tells you to do. Have fun with the realization that he is walking by your side. That will help keep you from having the wrong kind of fun. What would Jesus do? Why not just ask him? Surely if there’s any reality at all to what we’re saying, he will answer you.

MacDuff

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Wow Macduff!!
What an excellent post. Everything you wrote resonated with my spirit and much of my own personal experience. You nailed it!!! Right on the head!

Blessings!

Carolina G

AMEN!

[MacDuff]

Awareness

“A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.”
H. L. Mencken


Do the gospels say anything about the Recovery way of doing things? Since the ekklesia as the community of believers didn’t as yet exist, and was only mentioned twice by Jesus as something future....no, can’t say as I do. The whole idea of the Recovery, unless I miss my guess, was intended to be a recovery of what Lee called the practical expression of the Church. Well, since I don’t see the ekklesia and the Church as being the same thing, which Lee did....no, can’t say as I see it anywhere in the New Testament.

Christians, on the other hand, would say that the Recovery is a degraded version of the Historic Christian Faith (Catholic/Orthodox), or the Historic Biblical Christian faith (Protestant). It seems what goes around comes around. As Lee judged Christianity and the Christians therein, so also has Christianity and the Christians therein judged Lee and his Recovery.

In my opinion, the Recovery is the creation of one man, Witness Lee. He interpreted the Bible allegorically to conform to his own creation. Why is that seen as so unusual? Christians have been interpreting the Bible for centuries to conform it to their own version of reality. Catholics and Protestants. They have that practice in common. Whether the Bible is interpreted by so called “Church Fathers”, or by contemporary Christian rulers, it is still interpreted. In my opinion, if the Bible is to have any real meaning at all, meaning that could be called its own, it certainly won’t be discovered by interpretation that is just the exercise of the mind of men upon the Bible. And the ludicrous idea (ludicrous in my opinion) that the different interpretations of men are based on something Spiritual? Well....

Jesus’ way was to choose 12 men whom he taught, who understood little of what he taught. One could conceivably equate that with “going to meetings, conferences, and training's”. Post 1st century version. Gatherings in buildings built for the purpose has been the practice of Christianity also for centuries. Wouldn’t you say that the Sermon Service of Protestants is very like a meeting or a conference or a training? Lee was, after all, a Protestant by his own admission.

But to refer to going around calling Oh Lord Jesus as Obsessive–compulsive disorder.... Well, I remind you that Atheists think that just believing in Jesus Christ as the answer to personal sinfulness is to be equated with taking opium. But you’ll have to take calling on Jesus up with Paul who originally perpetuated the idea (1Cor 1:2).

The consistent practice of cynicism could be considered a form of OCD. A form of ANB, abnormal negative behaviour. And that’s what this thread is all about, isn’t it? So your ideal was shattered by someone in the Recovery. We all have to go through that sort of thing. I went through that a lot in Christianity. It helps us to differentiate reality from non-reality. Didn’t make me a cynic. Just showed me a better way to go. I attend a Christian Church and don’t say anything about what I believe. And the necessity for that is pretty abnormal to me. But the reality is that Christianity is what it is. Doesn’t mean that a person who prefers to go to meetings, conferences and trainings, that they think is applicable to them, or is something they enjoy doing, is necessarily a bad thing. Secular people do it all the time pertaining to what interests them and what they think is applicable to them. At least they’re doing something. At least they have an interest in something more than just their own bodily functions. More than one could say for most pew potatoes.

MacDuff

[alwayslearning]

movingon I bet you didn't think you'd get an earful about denominations, Catholic, Protestant, etc when you posted!

Anyway my guess is regardless of denomination, non-denomination or whatever affiliation the Christians you describe aren't really thinking too much about that. They are just enjoying life and their friendships at whatever church they attend. And they seamlessly move about and probably don't stop and pray about whether they should go to football game or not. They go to watch it and enjoy the company of whoever goes with them. Not everything is so "spiritual" for them and their decisions in everyday life. Nothing wrong with that IMHO!

[awareness]

Good post MacDuff. Thanks.

No matter how cynical you become, ya can't keep up.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by MacDuff

Awareness

“A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.”
H. L. Mencken

[MacDuff]

Alwayslearning

Nothing wrong with that if Christians are in and out of the world. It’s only something to think about for those who are in the world but not out of the world.

MacDuff

[countmeworthy]

Good post alwayslearning! I want to add something I have learned that is so rewarding is giving Thanks. Give Thanks for big things as well as for the little things. I always tank the Holy Spirit for leading me to a misplaced object like my keys, my cell phone, etc. I thank Him for giving me revelation, understanding, and Wisdom. I thank the Lord for giving me a roof over my head and an income to pay my bills. I thank the Lord for the good friends I have. (most are young believers in Christ. Some are religious and some are non believers.) They are always there for me.

I thank the Lord for using me in His service to lead people to Christ, to disciple them by teaching them the fundamental Truths of the Word of God and the Power of His Precious Blood.

There are a few TV shows I like. They are wholesome and make me laugh. I find myself praying for the actors who play those characters. I need laughter in my life and they provide just that. So why not pray for them????

BTW, can I recommend an excellent movie??? " The book of Eli". If you have not seen it, I will only let you in on this. The very end ties the the entire movie and makes the movie. It stars Denzel Washington and Mila Kunis.

I thank the Lord for the Word of God I grasped in my early days in the LC. I am forever grateful I am out too. He led me in and led me out.

I pray for the body of Christ and for Israel, for the nations of this world, for Muslims, Jews, non believers and for the broken hearted.

Never ever forget the Lord Jesus. He is truly the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE. No one can go to God the Father but by Him.

Never forget God is LOVE. AND that is the greatest aspect of Who He is. May we ALL be filled with His Love and with inner peace in our journey here on earth.

Abundant blessings to all!!!

Carolina G

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

movingon I bet you didn't think you'd get an earful about denominations, Catholic, Protestant, etc when you posted!

Anyway my guess is regardless of denomination, non-denomination or whatever affiliation the Christians you describe aren't really thinking too much about that. They are just enjoying life and their friendships at whatever church they attend. And they seamlessly move about and probably don't stop and pray about whether they should go to football game or not. They go to watch it and enjoy the company of whoever goes with them. Not everything is so "spiritual" for them and their decisions in everyday life. Nothing wrong with that IMHO!

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This brings to light a major LRC error: Over-conditioning members with LRC interpretations without letting the members have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether those things make sense or not. In other words, lack of freedom to make up one's own mind. That's one of the best ways to replace the leading of the Spirit with man's indoctrination, and obviously one the LRC majors in.

This is something I really have a hard time with when people stand to "prophesy." Whatever was contained in that week's reading couldn't possibly have been digested, experienced, tested and understood between Sundays. Yet people stand up and repeat something (often a sad though strangely accepted substitute for sharing something that's been enjoyed) as if they were absolutely sure it was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I often wonder what some people sitting next to me think when they read 1 John 4. I know some of them think the HWFMR is the Word of God...

A brother in faith

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

This is something I really have a hard time with when people stand to "prophesy." Whatever was contained in that week's reading couldn't possibly have been digested, experienced, tested and understood between Sundays. Yet people stand up and repeat (often a sad though strangely accepted substitute for sharing something that's been enjoyed) something as is they were absolutely sure it was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A phrase I heard often in one lc in particular was "chewing the cud". With a pre-packaged ministry booklet it is comparable to chewing someone else's cud. Not saying it's wrong, but when it comes to prophesying I've wondered "does the person fully comprehend" or is it a case of gaining approval?
In the case of using a ministry as crutch and substitute, more often than not ministries of man are not comprehensive. There are portions of the Word that is preferred and there are portions that are discounted. There are portions of the Word that is not very positive and summarily avoided.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Igzy

One issue to take note of is that discomfort in the "world" or "religion" after being in the LRC is more likely to be matter of culture shock than anything truly spiritual.

I've had a different experience. Since I was among Christians in the LC I gave them credit.
Many Christians I know don't fit in the world. Ironically, I had a hard time fitting in the so-called recovery. Came to the stark reality I did not fit. I the time since, meeting with non-LRC assemblies, I feel more at home, more comfortable because I can just be myself and I don't have to perform to be accepted.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

I like to read about the illuminati and what they are up to. We are heading towards a one world government, one world RELIGION, and one world currency. (Revelation 13). I have friends I "play" with. We crack each other up. I have a knack for mimicking people without being mean spirited. I can be very witty too.

This is my normalcy. It may not e anyone else's. But it is MINE. I embrace it. Way too many people are lost. They need to have an intimate relationship with Christ.

I went way longer than I wanted to.

In closing, whatever you do and in whatever you think, do ALL to the Glory, and Honor of our God and Creator. Have fun. Laugh a lot, Embrace Life and remember God wants and will bring someone into your life to minister to you or for you to minister to that person.

Thanks for reading my personal testimony.

Blessings,

Carolina G

Good stuff, Carol. God made us all different. We are supposed to become like God, not become God. He likes variety, obviously. Would anyone want all their kids to be exactly alike? Otherwise, what would be the point of having more than one?

It is very liberating to reach a place where you no longer mistake self-loathing for humility and self-esteem for pride. God loves us, so in a healthy sense we should like and love ourselves.

The Bible says love your neighbor as yourself. So that means to love yourself as your neighbor. How are you to love your neighbor? You are supposed to see him as a unique creation made in the image of God who has value and purpose. You are supposed to say kind and encouraging words to him. You are supposed to give him a break and not be harsh with him. So should we treat ourselves.

As Norman Vincent Peale said, "Learn to like yourself. You are going to have to spend a lot of time with yourself, so you might as well get something out of the relationship."

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by Terry

A phrase I heard often in one lc in particular was "chewing the cud". With a pre-packaged ministry booklet it is comparable to chewing someone else's cud. Not saying it's wrong, but when it comes to prophesying I've wondered "does the person fully comprehend" or is it a case of gaining approval?
In the case of using a ministry as crutch and substitute, more often than not ministries of man are not comprehensive. There are portions of the Word that is preferred and there are portions that are discounted. There are portions of the Word that is not very positive and summarily avoided.

I've never heard it described like that..I suppose it's fitting as there's some amount of regurgitation going on. It's partially about gaining approval and partially about feeling one with someone else...probably also about feeling like you've done what's expected of you. Unfortunately, it's usually the same 10-15 people who get up and share every meeting. I've often wondered what the meeting would be like if they all happened to be out of town or just didn't stand up one week.

As far as becoming normal...I think if by normal you mean a normal Christian then I think you're off to the right start. The normal Christian as described by Nee and taken up by Lee and LC has never seemed to me to mesh with Christians I've known--except those who are trying to shape their lives into the parameters of the LC's term. Normal Christians, as far as I can tell, struggle with daily life, struggle with sin, enjoy spending time with friends be they saved or not, enjoy sports, enjoy relaxing on the couch and watching something mindless from time to time to time. To mandate that these things be avoided, and to suggest that the normal Christian life be somehow an "overcoming life" (still not entirely sure what that means) is to be blind to reality.

The Lord's life is the only thing that should be governing you, and if you're genuinely seeking Him (and that includes praying with others, asking others how they see things in the Bible) I think being normal will be the least of your concerns. You will have a freedom that can only be found in Christ.