*Lurkers Only*: Now's Your Chance

[UntoHim]

What's the difference between a "sect of Christianity with strong cultic tendencies" and a "cult of Christianity with strong orthodox/evangelical tendencies"? Six of one, one half dozen of the other? One phrase uses the politically correct "s" word and the other uses the harsh "c" word, but when all the dust settles both phrases are describing the same reality. Now that Witness Lee is dead, I think it's a little harder for people to differentiate and discern what the true condition of the Movement really is and how it may be "labeled". One thing we know for certain, whatever the folks over on La Palma Ave in Anaheim call it, we can assume it’s pretty much the opposite.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Now that Witness Lee is dead, I think it's a little harder for people to differentiate and discern what the true condition of the Movement really is and how it may be "labeled".

How about "personality cult"? From Wikipedia: "A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized and heroic public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. Sociologist Max Weber developed a tripartite classification of authority; the cult of personality holds parallels with what Weber defined as "charismatic authority". A cult of personality is similar to hero worship, except that it is established by mass media and propaganda."

As an example, Witness Lee got Mel Porter to take his personality as his own, then Mel tried to get brother 'awareness' (& others) to take his (Mel's) personality. I also remember the lc's being called "Witness Lee duplication centers", with what seemed to be a straight face. So maybe it's a personality cult, which just happens to be religious in character.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

What's the difference between a "sect of Christianity with strong cultic tendencies" and a "cult of Christianity with strong orthodox/evangelical tendencies"? Six of one, one half dozen of the other? One phrase uses the politically correct "s" word and the other uses the harsh "c" word, but when all the dust settles both phrases are describing the same reality. Now that Witness Lee is dead, I think it's a little harder for people to differentiate and discern what the true condition of the Movement really is and how it may be "labeled". One thing we know for certain, whatever the folks over on La Palma Ave in Anaheim call it, we can assume it’s pretty much the opposite.

A sect can have a somewhat benign meaning, a small group of Christians with some differing beliefs from mainstream Christianity. I would not be alarmed if a close relative met with a Christian "sect".

The word cult has a derogatory meaning, suggesting the worship of a man along with some sinister teachings and/or practices.

[coalsoffire]

Brothers, I feel safe and welcomed here. I reviewed, in my mind, what I meant by not "women friendly," and I think I meant more along the lines of not "very interesting to women, in general." And the certain (hard to describe) sense I get when the male presence is dominant, like when I am at home and there are all males around the table, and me. Not intimidating; perhaps overwhelming; unbalanced. Now there is the word I was looking for: unbalanced.

I remember vaguely a teaching of Witness Lee's: a healthy picture of the church-life (or maybe it pertained to door knocking) is Mary, Martha, and Lazarus, the ratio being 1 male to 2 females.

I do not want to be a co-moderator; I am thankful for this place, but it is not a place I am inclined to linger. This place has been helpful to me, however. And there are some sweet brothers here.

I recently went to the 2 "local" churches in Cleveland's websites. There was something on one for the sisters, fellowship for the married sisters and such. Again, it seemed unbalanced. Maybe I am too much of a feminist or something. Discouraging, too, is the divided local churches; I really had no idea such a thing existed. But, really, it should have come as no surprise.

Back and forth, a promise of unity, then division; it will never end. Just like wars. Mostly male driven, if you ask me. But, the sisters would probably botch it all up as well, if they were in charge.

I do not know the answer, for me. Where to go to church? I sympathize with the sister who attends Mass every now and then. I determined I would return to the Mother Church of them all. And I did, and it was easy for a time, to just go and do the rituals, which can be very meaningful if you let them be, and eat Jesus, and then be sustained until the next time. It was simple, beautiful, and grounding. And it was not too demanding, except, for me, the examination of conscience and confession. Yet, politics crept in, as usual.

I just can't take it anymore. There is nowhere to go, nowhere "to be." Just here, where I am, in all that I do. I give up on this church thing and on who is right and who is wrong. I do not have the heart for it.

[aron]

Originally Posted by coalsoffire

Brothers, I feel safe and welcomed here. I reviewed, in my mind, what I meant by not "women friendly," and I think I meant more along the lines of not "very interesting to women, in general." And the certain (hard to describe) sense I get when the male presence is dominant, like when I am at home and there are all males around the table, and me. Not intimidating; perhaps overwhelming; unbalanced.

... Maybe I am too much of a feminist or something... I just do not have the heart for it.

The "Good News", at least in part, is that Jesus was, arguably, waaaay feminist. Where else can you see something like sister Mary chilling out blissfully at His feet? Even today, 2000 years later, Jesus would be egalitarian, inclusive, and "progressive".

Now, where are you going to find such a comfortable, non-judgmental, welcoming, non-hierarchical, open scene today? I don't know. But it was there, at least once -- it's been recorded in the 4 gospels. Though it seems the door slammed shut quickly, that kind of world is out there, somewhere: if it was there once it is (at least potentially) there always.

I think forums like this are interesting for hyper-rational males who like to hear themselves think. Understandable that it would be less than compelling to many others.

Just follow the Spirit. That's all I can really say. Follow the Spirit and you will get where you are supposed to go. Pray the prayer that you have been waiting to pray your whole life, the one God has been waiting to hear from you; pray for your destiny. When God hears it surely He will do it. He has placed the Living Prayer in front of you, waiting for your heart to sense it and your mouth to echo it. "But what does it say? The Word is very nigh unto thee..."

"A cult is defined as having religious devotion to a man and sinister teachings or practices."

Doesn't that answer the question? Again, in my personal experience, everything was WL. I think WN was thrown into the mix just to try and demonstrate that they are not following just one man. Of course we knew the difference. I cannot say how the lcs are functioning now because I have not been back, but I suspect their focus around what you call MOTA is still intact, whether the lc is under LSM or not.

In their defence, "cult" has a horrible connotation (e.g., Jonestown), but it also has a meaning as the poster provided above. I understand why they would be outraged by the use of the term, since it would scare away many potential members. So technically, yes they fit the definition, but in practicality, they are not so much difference than many fundamentalist sects. In fact, some of these sects are much more dangerous, IMHO.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by coalsoffire

I just can't take it anymore. There is nowhere to go, nowhere "to be." Just here, where I am, in all that I do. I give up on this church thing and on who is right and who is wrong. I do not have the heart for it.

Every Christian needs fellowship. We were not meant to be just by ourselves. We are meant to help others and be helped by others. We have to pray that the Lord brings us together with the people he wants us to be with. Being a lone ranger has no future.

You don't have to get involved in politics, you don't even have to join a "church." Just do what you can and leave the rest to God. Sure, people are frustrating. Everyone experiences that. What else is new? But I believe part of the maturing process is to learn to deal with people while not compromising integrity.

The Church is everywhere. It might just be with some neighborhood friends once a week at Starbucks. You don't have to be conventional--but don't give up on the Church. That's the same as giving up on humanity, which means giving up on yourself.

[UntoHim]

coalsoffire,
Igzy is right, we are all part of God's family and so we need at least some amount of contact with other "family members". It is very easy for those of us who have been burned by groups like the Local Church to just become loners and isolated from other Christians. After leaving the LC (after 20 years) I avoided fellowship with other Christians for a number of years. I eventually realized that I was drying up and hurting myself.

I don't know if you are in a metropolitan area or not, but if you are I can assure you that there are numerous churches out there where you will find men and women of God seeking to teach, preach and live out the historic gospel. In my experience these can mostly be found among what I will loosely define as evangelical community churches. However, there are such churches among some of the "denominations" as well.

Tell the Lord you are seeking him. He is a "he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Hebrews 11:6)