I love the local church

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Dear SavedbyGrace, you keep trying to justify the use of quarantines by denominational leaders. The Bible, as in I Cor 5, spells out conditions for such action. But i am not talking about anything of the kind. Not one single person was quarantined for immoral or unrighteous activity (sin.) Each brother was quarantined by LSM leaders in order to silence them from exposing sin, immorality, and unrighteousness at LSM.

Is that too hard to understand? Why else would so many of us leave? I am not talking about minor matters here. I was in church responsibility for many years. I was involved in hundreds of sad cases of the believers failures. I am the last person to be disappointed by naive concepts of expected "perfection" in God's children. We are all a work in progress. But LSM operates under a horrible double standard.

Let me use a simple example here to make the situation "perfectly clear." What if I was a gifted, but abusive, leader whose son ran my ministry and got caught for molesting ministry employees. In order to protect my reputation and my ministry, I literally destroyed the reputations of all my assistants who threatened to go public with this information.
SavedbyGrace, what would you think of me or my ministry?

If I was in a local church where a sin occurs and the elders are prevented from taking the right decision, I do not have a choice but to leave the local church.

And, to answer your example, I would have a low opinion about anyone who misuses his office. Practically speaking, I would stop listening to the person who misuses his office, irrespective of how wonderful his ministry is.

But, since I am in a different local church which is not affected by this incident, I would not be leaving my local church just based on this incident. I have been enjoying the fellowship with the brothers for some time and I enjoy it. As long as my local church is administered without any issues, I would like to continue there.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by SavedbyGrace

If I was in a local church where a sin occurs and the elders are prevented from taking the right decision, I do not have a choice but to leave the local church.

And, to answer your example, I would have a low opinion about anyone who misuses his office. Practically speaking, I would stop listening to the person who misuses his office, irrespective of how wonderful his ministry is.

But, since I am in a different local church which is not affected by this incident, I would not be leaving my local church just based on this incident. I have been enjoying the fellowship with the brothers for some time and I enjoy it. As long as my local church is administered without any issues, I would like to continue there.

I think there is merit to this view. However, I would point out that since most saints subscribe to this view it enables the LSM to bully churches.

However, let's discuss the example that Ohio has been giving of the quarantine of TC. The BBs sent out a letter explaining their basis for the quarantine and then expected all the churches and saints to stand with them. Therefore, unless your church "quarantines" those saints, there would be no quarantine. So I read the letter and I felt the letter was sin. The NT gives very clear guidelines as to what would constitute grounds for quarantine and the letter didn't present any evidence of any of these grounds. Instead I felt the letter did much to condemn the BBs who signed it.

Now you can no longer say that "this doesn't affect my locality". Either you stand with the quarantine or you don't.

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think there is merit to this view. However, I would point out that since most saints subscribe to this view it enables the LSM to bully churches.

However, let's discuss the example that Ohio has been giving of the quarantine of TC. The BBs sent out a letter explaining their basis for the quarantine and then expected all the churches and saints to stand with them. Therefore, unless your church "quarantines" those saints, there would be no quarantine. So I read the letter and I felt the letter was sin. The NT gives very clear guidelines as to what would constitute grounds for quarantine and the letter didn't present any evidence of any of these grounds. Instead I felt the letter did much to condemn the BBs who signed it.

Now you can no longer say that "this doesn't affect my locality". Either you stand with the quarantine or you don't.

We received the letter about Br. Titus but I do not think it was officially read.
I don't think anyone in my local church would know Br. Titus Chu if he were to walk into our meeting tomorrow and introduce himself as Br. Titus Chu, And, I came to know about the group called Blended Brothers recently.

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by Ohio

SavedByGrace, these ones were not just "brothers in another locality," they were WL and PL who ran the ministry which was beginning to invade every part of the local church life back in the 80's. Behind the scenes WL and TC were struggling as to "who had the rights" to our eldest brother, and shepherd in the Lord. I could go on for hours how damaging and disrupting LSM and ministry leaders have been to the local churches I have been a part of, but I'm not sure you would like to hear that.

Apologies for my statement 'If you are expecting the local church to be the 'perfect' church, you will be disappointed. And, that is what seems to have happened.'.
If I am in a local church where there is huge influence from external agents (without the permission of the local administration), I would be forced to leave the local church.
You believe you had valid reasons to leave the local church and I accept it. But, I do not accept that those reasons apply to all local churches nor do I agree that everyone should avoid the local churches.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You have been in the Recovery about 10 years. Several years ago LSM and its affiliate DCP sent operatives into Midwest churches to "train" them how to bring lawsuits against their elders in order to capture church properties and assets. LSM sponsored lawsuits occurred in Toronto, Mansfield, and Columbus. Other churches faced the risk of lawsuits. Many churches were torn in half with conflicts dividing families in half. Does this qualify as something that would upset you if it happened in your place?

I don't think law suits would work in my country. Anyways, most of the saints are poor. So, most of the churches cannot afford property.

It would upset me if the local church divided my family. But, I doubt my family would be divided by the local church. Most of my immediate family members are in the local church. But, if they decide to join another denomination tomorrow, I will not hate them.
Some of my immediate family members and most of my extended family members are from different denominations including Catholic and I am close to all of them. Personally (i.e. in non-spiritual matter), we do not have any issues at all with my relatives. Regarding spiritual matters, we believe we are on the better track but they do not think so. And, both of us are fine with it. It is not something we fight over.
When I go to their house, if they are praying, I join them. If I am asked to pray, I pray the way I usually pray in the local churches. When they pray, they pray the way they pray in their churches (some of which is recitation of prayers from the prayer book or the Lord's prayer).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SavedbyGrace

If I was in a local church where a sin occurs and the elders are prevented from taking the right decision, I do not have a choice but to leave the local church.

And, to answer your example, I would have a low opinion about anyone who misuses his office. Practically speaking, I would stop listening to the person who misuses his office, irrespective of how wonderful his ministry is.

But, since I am in a different local church which is not affected by this incident, I would not be leaving my local church just based on this incident. I have been enjoying the fellowship with the brothers for some time and I enjoy it. As long as my local church is administered without any issues, I would like to continue there.

I wish you only the best.