I love the local church

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

However, maybe you are so far from Anaheim that the leading brothers in your local church have taken some liberties...if this is the case I think it is a very positive development. Without disclosing your location, please feel free to let us know about these "different practices" in your local church. I am genuinely interested to know.

Also, please take to heart what Paul Cox just posted. This forum is a place for dialogue and communication. We are not here to express hatred for the Local Church, Witness Lee or Watchman Nee. Disagreement does not equal hatred. However, if you see something posted that you believe expresses hatred than you can point that out to me and we can talk about it.

Amen! Yes UntoHim, key word is disagreement. The may be mistrust, but not hatred. To the contrary, it's because of love for the brothers and sisters we know in the local churches there is groaning for change. A change to local churches which is general in it's receiving. A change that is impartial to whoever walk throught the meeting hall doors. A change in forgiving one another. I would love to see localities such as Moses Lake, Rosemead, etc be received and acknowledged as a local church without fellowship with LSM being a prerequisite.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Amen! Yes UntoHim, key word is disagreement. The may be mistrust, but not hatred. To the contrary, it's because of love for the brothers and sisters we know in the local churches there is groaning for change. A change to local churches which is general in it's receiving. A change that is impartial to whoever walk throught the meeting hall doors. A change in forgiving one another. I would love to see localities such as Moses Lake, Rosemead, etc be received and acknowledged as a local church without fellowship with LSM being a prerequisite.

Why is it that no brother and no church can amiably part ways with LSM? Any disagreement or correcting words from brothers are not taken to the Lord for healthy consideration, rather they are firstly tagged as opinionated, and if others agree, these ones are labeled as rebellious.

LSM is an absolutely closed "society" which answers to no one. They have zero accountability to member churches. How can LSM supposedly "serve" the churches yet these same churches have no say? Numerous concerned brothers (and sisters) over the period of many decades have brought serious issues to light at LSM, all with the same result -- expulsion. Why is that? Should not all ministries be open to examination? The apostles walked in the light of day, but LSM operates with impunity.

[Cal]

Fact: The health of any local church is directly proportional to its independence from LSM and the Blending Brothers, or for that matter any other "work" which presumes that churches should follow it.

Unregistered, you probably have a nice church-life, and that's great. But however much you choose to remain ignorant of the history of the LC movement to that same extent you are hurting yourself, your family and anyone you might influence.

The Local Church movement has an unrepentant history of abusing members and former members based on an indefensible doctrine of narrow and exclusive spiritual authority. The extensive damage done by this system is not made up by the pleasant experiences you are having out in the hinterland.

Until your movement repents of its abuses and makes public apologies, you are going to see, and you should see, information sources like this website.

Shame on LC members for cooperating with any cover-up of their movement's abuses.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why is it that no brother and no church can amiably part ways with LSM?

LSM is an absolutely closed "society" which answers to no one. They have zero accountability to member churches. How can LSM supposedly "serve" the churches yet these same churches have no say?

Hello Ohio. In response to your question which I wish readers of this forum to consider is the matter of grace. When a brother or sister ceases to meet with a locality, why cannot he or she be extended grace? I've brought before on this forum the community church where I've been meeting for the past year. A teaching brother/elder chose to leave. What I did not know until last week, is after every sermon he would affirm or critique the pastor's sermon to the pastor. So when this teaching brother choose to leave, I thought it was very telling in hindsight when the pastor called all the elders forward to pray for and give grace to this teaching brother in his last meeting with East Renton Community Church. By comparison the Church in Moses Lake parted ways with LSM in April 1986. Sometime after I had been meeting with the Church in Bellevue, I raised a question to one of the elders/deacons. What about Moses Lake. Paraphrased response given, they're a rebel church. Some response when visiting the Church in Spokane. Oh, Lord Jesus! What has our receiving been reduced to?
Ohio, time has proved LSM doesn't serve the churches, it's the churches that serve LSM. If LSM did serve the churches, what happened in the Great Lakes area would be a non-issue as the churches are local in administration. I think it's telling when a brother in their localities have been received. However when a blended brother speaks a word to the localities' elders about that brother, that changes everything. If you had the notion to press a question to a blended brother/co-worker, don't expect a response. There's accountability to no one.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Ohio, time has proved LSM doesn't serve the churches, it's the churches that serve LSM.

Very true.

LSM has no basis for their very existence. LSM has no scriptural mandate to even exist, let alone lord it over the churches.

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very true.

LSM has no basis for their very existence. LSM has no scriptural mandate to even exist, let alone lord it over the churches.

LSM may have its flaws (though I would like to hear the major issues anyone has with it).
But, LSM does a job too. There are many good teachers of the word out there. It is only LSM that ensured that the word spoken by Br. Lee reached many of the countries, including mine and help people like me know that there is more to the word than 'God so loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son...'

Like LSM, there are other publications which print exclusively for certain authors. For instance, Christian Fellowship Publishers print only books by Br. Nee and Br. Kuang. If you take a magnifying glass to CFP, you may finds flaws there as well. But, since the CFP remains very low-key, it manages to not be scrutinized in its dealings (just as no one bother Herman Cain till he ran for President). If and when CFP becomes aggressive in marketing their books and they get a lot of readers, they 'may' also have complaints being raised against them.

[Paul Cox]

One big difference. Nobody from CFP has ever declared that Stephen Kaung is the Minister of the Age, God's Oracle on the earth, or the Acting God. None of the groups getting help from Stephen Kaung, neither individually, nor collectively have ever called themselves 'The Lord's Recovery,' or 'God's Move on the Earth,' while at the time taking every opportunity to demean and find fault with everything that is not them. No one person or group of people who stopped fellowshiping with the Assemblies were said to have left God's Best, and no one who ever dared to speak contrary to them has been called inspired by Satan, rebellious or any such thing.

P.C.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Paul Cox

One big difference. Nobody from CFP has ever declared that Stephen Kaung is the Minister of the Age, God's Oracle on the earth, or the Acting God. None of the groups getting help from Stephen Kaung, neither individually, nor collectively have ever called themselves 'The Lord's Recovery,' or 'God's Move on the Earth,' while at the time taking every opportunity to demean and find fault with everything that is not them. No one person or group of people who stopped fellowshiping with the Assemblies were said to have left God's Best, and no one who ever dared to speak contrary to them has been called inspired by Satan, rebellious or any such thing.

P.C.

Absolutely. I would ask two questions about CFP. Are there any churches, anywhere in the world, with book stores, excuse me, book rooms, that only sell books published by CFP?

Is there any kind of two-year school, excuse me, training, where all course materials are published by CFP?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SavedbyGrace

LSM may have its flaws (though I would like to hear the major issues anyone has with it).

SavedbyGrace, I do have major issues with both the behaviors of LSM leaders and their teachings. I actively served in the churches for close to 30 years, from the mid-70's to the mid 00's, then the quarantines of the Great Lakes Area caused me to research and evaluate, in the light of scripture and church history, both current and past activities of WL/LSM, especially related to the many so-called "storms" in the Recovery in which former leaders were publicly "quarantined" following a time of so-called "rebellion."

What I learned disgusted me. They could not be considered merely as "flaws."

Originally Posted by SavedbyGrace

But, LSM does a job too.

This is part of the hypocrisy which is so disturbing. LSM claims to be only "little brothers" desiring only to be "faithful" to the Lord's charge to "serve" all the churches in the Lord's "body," when in truth they are often like despotic dictators lording it over churches and her leaders. Those who resist LSM's advances are shamed and bullied into submission, or publicly smeared and slandered into departure.

Since I knew many of the so-called "rebels," and then after many years, read their personal accounts of why they actually departed, I was able to discern for myself the true facts of history, and not just buy into LSM's distorted record of history. LSM has a seasoned team of wordsmiths at their disposal who have learned to spin all events according to their own self-serving interests, and not according to truth and righteousness.

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by Ohio

SavedbyGrace, I do have major issues with both the behaviors of LSM leaders and their teachings. I actively served in the churches for close to 30 years, from the mid-70's to the mid 00's, then the quarantines of the Great Lakes Area caused me to research and evaluate, in the light of scripture and church history, both current and past activities of WL/LSM, especially related to the many so-called "storms" in the Recovery in which former leaders were publicly "quarantined" following a time of so-called "rebellion."

What I learned disgusted me. They could not be considered merely as "flaws."



This is part of the hypocrisy which is so disturbing. LSM claims to be only "little brothers" desiring only to be "faithful" to the Lord's charge to "serve" all the churches in the Lord's "body," when in truth they are often like despotic dictators lording it over churches and her leaders. Those who resist LSM's advances are shamed and bullied into submission, or publicly smeared and slandered into departure.

Since I knew many of the so-called "rebels," and then after many years, read their personal accounts of why they actually departed, I was able to discern for myself the true facts of history, and not just buy into LSM's distorted record of history. LSM has a seasoned team of wordsmiths at their disposal who have learned to spin all events according to their own self-serving interests, and not according to truth and righteousness.

1. By definition, organizations are a group of like-minded people. When a person of a different views/opinions joins the organization, the peace is lost. So, it is better for the dissenter to go on his/her separate way.

2. Quarantines happen in most organizations. I personally know someone (let us call him Mr. X) who was quarantined by a Christian organization. The members of the organization were sent a letter asking them not to entertain Mr. X.
After a few years gap, Mr. and Mrs. X, visited one of his old friends from the organization. Mr. X was allowed to enter but was informed that the friend's family was not comfortable entertaining Mr. X because they were afraid someone would squeal on them.
Ironically, Mr. X is not boycotted by the person who sent out the letter asking people to boycott Mr. X.

3. Are the saints who left the local churches welcoming everyone? Do ex-members of local churches allow everyone to speak whatever they think is the revelation that each of them have received? Doesn't anyone try to control the teachings in the churches where the ex-members of the local churches meet?

[SavedbyGrace]

Originally Posted by Ohio

SavedbyGrace, I do have major issues with both the behaviors of LSM leaders and their teachings. I actively served in the churches for close to 30 years, from the mid-70's to the mid 00's, then the quarantines of the Great Lakes Area caused me to research and evaluate, in the light of scripture and church history, both current and past activities of WL/LSM, especially related to the many so-called "storms" in the Recovery in which former leaders were publicly "quarantined" following a time of so-called "rebellion."

What I learned disgusted me. They could not be considered merely as "flaws."



This is part of the hypocrisy which is so disturbing. LSM claims to be only "little brothers" desiring only to be "faithful" to the Lord's charge to "serve" all the churches in the Lord's "body," when in truth they are often like despotic dictators lording it over churches and her leaders. Those who resist LSM's advances are shamed and bullied into submission, or publicly smeared and slandered into departure.

Since I knew many of the so-called "rebels," and then after many years, read their personal accounts of why they actually departed, I was able to discern for myself the true facts of history, and not just buy into LSM's distorted record of history. LSM has a seasoned team of wordsmiths at their disposal who have learned to spin all events according to their own self-serving interests, and not according to truth and righteousness.

From the post above, I felt that your concern was that brothers working in LSM are often like despotic dictators lording it over churches and her leaders.

Since I do not know the brothers working at LSM, I do not have an opinion about them. You have an opinion about the brothers in LSM because you interacted with them or know people who interacted with them.

But, I never read the books published by LSM because the brothers working in LSM were more spiritual than me. I read the books because the books helped me enjoy the Lord. And, I would continue to refer to the books as long as I benefit from it.
(Balaam's donkey spoke to Balaam. Balaam could either listen to the donkey or tell the donkey that the donkey had not been the bestest of donkeys all these years.)

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by SavedbyGrace

LSM may have its flaws (though I would like to hear the major issues anyone has with it).

1. The discrepancy what www.afaithfulword.org presents in Quarantine in the Bible and in Practice is a good word, but is not indicative of the Recovery practices of quarantines. Pertaining to the late 80's quarantine is not giving grace to those saints who left, but rather discounting them as rebellious. In regard to the late 80's quarantine, nothing by LSM is ever acknowledged about Phillip Lee's role. Specifically brothers who reacted to Phillip's ethics and morals, were very ones who became quarantined.

2. LSM's extra-local interferences with a local church's administration. You can be an elder in a locality, once a blended co-worker speaks a word whom not to receive, you as the elder will "take heed" from the blended co-worker's fellowship not to receive that brother or that sister.....even if you as the elder has had a positive history with that brother or sister.
A phrase from hymn 824 in the 6th stanza

Administration local,
Each answ'ring to the Lord;

Generally this is not the case. Those who follow through with each administration local, each answering to the Lord generally find themselves out of fellowship with LSM. Such localities are Moses Lake, Rosemead, Goshen, Detroit, Columbus, etc.

[Cal]

If LCers are expert at anything, it is at being content with being ignorant.

[Paul Cox]

Originally Posted by Terry

Administration local,
Each answ'ring to the Lord;

Each answering to the Lord as to what color wallpaper to use in the ladies restroom.