Have the BBs been faithful to the entire ministry of WL?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by 77150

They could never have built the case on the unsubstantiated charge that TC was using fleshly means to preach the gospel because that charge had been around a long time and WL never did anything about it.

This has been discussed before some time back. The general thought is that WL was much more restrained when it came to dealing with another Chinese person in the environment of America. He might have destroyed TC years earlier if the audience had been Taiwan. But in front of Americans, he seldom dealt with another Chinese as he did with the Americans or Europeans. It was almost clearly a cultural thing.

So it is not so clear that Lee did not have everything he needed to demote or even cast out TC. But he would never treat TC like he had Max in front of us Americans.

So the fact that TC survived as long as he did after WL died is somewhat surprising. I guess that the BBs knew that despite his abuses, he was generally respected in the GLA and a pretty significant wedge had to be created.

[77150]

Originally Posted by OBW

This has been discussed before some time back. The general thought is that WL was much more restrained when it came to dealing with another Chinese person in the environment of America. He might have destroyed TC years earlier if the audience had been Taiwan. But in front of Americans, he seldom dealt with another Chinese as he did with the Americans or Europeans. It was almost clearly a cultural thing.

So it is not so clear that Lee did not have everything he needed to demote or even cast out TC. But he would never treat TC like he had Max in front of us Americans.

So the fact that TC survived as long as he did after WL died is somewhat surprising. I guess that the BBs knew that despite his abuses, he was generally respected in the GLA and a pretty significant wedge had to be created.

My point had nothing to do with WL. My point is that since WL had not acted, the BBs had no way to say they were "seeking to be faithful to WL's ministry" while excommunicating TC without a new charge.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by 77150

My point had nothing to do with WL.

That will be tough to establish since the statement from which I started was that Lee saw it all and did nothing. Your implication is that Lee had no basis for doing anything, so he didn't. But it would appear that there might be a reason that was not related to the correctness or incorrectness of taking action, but simply culture. That has everything to do with Lee. And it provides a reason that he might not have done what the BBs ultimately did.

And as Igzy has pointed out, Lee said much about many things and many people that we only know about because there have been some that were in the elders' meetings and have since repeated those things. That includes positions on many things about doctrine, theology, and people that were inconsistent with his public ministry.

It makes the inquiry about being "faithful to the entire ministry of WL" rather difficult. If you are an elder or co-worker, what is the "ministry of Lee"? Is it only what the people heard or read? Or does it include what they heard in those private meetings? So what are they being faithful to? The erratic contradictions of the whole man, or just the stuff that managed to get put in print by the LSM?

[77150]

Originally Posted by OBW

That will be tough to establish since the statement from which I started was that Lee saw it all and did nothing. Your implication is that Lee had no basis for doing anything, so he didn't. But it would appear that there might be a reason that was not related to the correctness or incorrectness of taking action, but simply culture. That has everything to do with Lee. And it provides a reason that he might not have done what the BBs ultimately did.

And as Igzy has pointed out, Lee said much about many things and many people that we only know about because there have been some that were in the elders' meetings and have since repeated those things. That includes positions on many things about doctrine, theology, and people that were inconsistent with his public ministry.

It makes the inquiry about being "faithful to the entire ministry of WL" rather difficult. If you are an elder or co-worker, what is the "ministry of Lee"? Is it only what the people heard or read? Or does it include what they heard in those private meetings? So what are they being faithful to? The erratic contradictions of the whole man, or just the stuff that managed to get put in print by the LSM?

There was no implication, there was merely the fact. Lee didn't do anything yet the allegation of using fleshly means for the gospel was already being bandied about. Therefore, if you are WL's disciple you must show me what changed to prompt this response. You cannot argue that "WL didn't like to take this action" tell that to Max, tell that to Jane, etc. WL was well able to "excommunicate" TC but didn't. Regardless of whether it was discussed or not, the fact is he chose not to do anything.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by 77150

WL was well able to "excommunicate" TC but didn't. Regardless of whether it was discussed or not, the fact is he chose not to do anything.

This was a function of Witness Lee's duplicity more than anything else. Titus Chu was not the only victim of Lee's duplicity and trickery. Lee would send out "spies" (really double-agents!), and these spies would pretend to be sympathetic towards those with genuine concerns, then they would gather information and report back to headquarters in Anaheim. NOBODY was spared from this unethical trickery...not even John Ingalls. It is simply how Witness Lee did business. Actually the blended brothers are rank armatures compared to Lee.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

This was a function of Witness Lee's duplicity more than anything else. Titus Chu was not the only victim of Lee's duplicity and trickery. Lee would send out "spies" (really double-agents!), and these spies would pretend to be sympathetic towards those with genuine concerns, then they would gather information and report back to headquarters in Anaheim. NOBODY was spared from this unethical trickery...not even John Ingalls. It is simply how Witness Lee did business. Actually the blended brothers are rank armatures compared to Lee.

This is another matter altogether.

The fact that WL even believed all of those evil reports which filtered back to him only created more "spies." I found that many LC leaders also learned this pattern of "keeping dirt" on other brothers. These are not the ways of spiritual men, but of those who lust for power over others. Many times TC mentioned the "hell" he went thru because of numerous evil reports about him reaching WL. The sad thing was, that TC did the same to his followers.

The LC program had little appreciation for anyone, except for him at the top. The result was that ambitious brothers became man-pleasers, until the day comes when they are the one at the top. Meanwhile, those truly ambitious ones will jockey for position, backstabbing one another all the time. Looking back, it is just incredible how much WL encouraged and endorsed the infighting which has so characterized the Recovery for decades.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

This has been discussed before some time back. The general thought is that WL was much more restrained when it came to dealing with another Chinese person in the environment of America. He might have destroyed TC years earlier if the audience had been Taiwan. But in front of Americans, he seldom dealt with another Chinese as he did with the Americans or Europeans. It was almost clearly a cultural thing.
So it is not so clear that Lee did not have everything he needed to demote or even cast out TC. But he would never treat TC like he had Max in front of us Americans.
So the fact that TC survived as long as he did after WL died is somewhat surprising. I guess that the BBs knew that despite his abuses, he was generally respected in the GLA and a pretty significant wedge had to be created.

WL would never have quarantined his most gifted and fruitful student because TC never spoke against WL or his family, either publicly or privately.