Steve Isitt (Indiana) testimony

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have no idea what you are talking about. If this is a topic that you don't want others to understand why are you posting it in an open forum? If not, could you please explain how he is being "shunned"?

Very well ZNP, I shall. I figured most on the forum were familiar with the practice of shunning. That is, people who know you and you know them, but when crossing paths ones who you regarded as acquaintances or friends will treat you like a stranger.
Where Steve had been living in Bellevue, Washington is a mere 30-60 second walk from a Kroger owned supermarket (QFC). It's vicinity is close to the Church in Bellevue meeting hall. Per Steve, there are a number of brothers and sisters from the Church in Bellevue who shop there. For the sake of not generalizing, there are several brothers who will greet Steve. Others from the Church in Bellevue who shop there (brothers and sisters alike) will look the other way.
Another example is a memorial I went to in 2007 where Steve was also present The brother who passed on was a public servant for the state of Washington. To my two older children he was Grandpa _ _ _. As this brother raised his family in Ephrata, WA his memorial service was in Ephrata. The chief speaker of the memorial service is an elder from the Church in Moses Lake. This elder exhibited no problem greeting Steve. There were brothers and sisters present from the Churches in Bellevue and Seattle. None of them did I see greet or acknowledge Steve at the memorial reception. I was there and observing if was to be any exchange of pleasantries. The only sister that did however had not been meeting with the Church in Bellevue since before my moving to the Bellevue area in 1993.

[Ohio]

People shun others because of fear. That fear overpowers whatever love they once had for each other. This shows what kind of power the LSM leaders hold in their hands.

Jesus told Pilate that the Jews had the "greater sin." Likewise, LSM leaders have the "greater sin" for their many quarantines, which are composed of nothing more than lies, suspicions, innuendos, slanders, unrighteousnesses, false witnesses, etc.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

People shun others because of fear. That fear overpowers whatever love they once had for each other. This shows what kind of power the LSM leaders hold in their hands.

Jesus told Pilate that the Jews had the "greater sin." Likewise, LSM leaders have the "greater sin" for their many quarantines, which are composed of nothing more than lies, suspicions, innuendos, slanders, unrighteousnesses, false witnesses, etc.

Ohio, I have seen the fear of God being turned to fear of man. Even through the reasons you have listed, bless all the brothers and sisters.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

Very well ZNP, I shall. I figured most on the forum were familiar with the practice of shunning. That is, people who know you and you know them, but when crossing paths ones who you regarded as acquaintances or friends will treat you like a stranger...

In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees.

I would encourage Steve to enjoy the fellowship with the Lord, pray for those that despitefully use you, and give thanks that you have been found worthy to suffer for the name of Christ just like the prophets.

But then Paul was asked to come and pray for a sick person related to the chief of the village. We are coworkers with God, all Power has been given unto the Lord to empower us in this ministry. Once the attitude changes their will be an opportunity to pray for those that have shunned him, I hope he will seize that opportunity.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees.

I would encourage Steve to enjoy the fellowship with the Lord, pray for those that despitefully use you, and give thanks that you have been found worthy to suffer for the name of Christ just like the prophets.

I wonder if we aren't all fools for shining the spotlight on ourselves, here in this space...

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my experience this is a blessing, not a curse. If, as Shakespeare said "all the world is a stage" then the spotlight is on Steve. Everyone is watching him and they are all ashamed of their behavior, because they have the same conscience you and I have, but they believe he has been bitten by a poisonous snake and they are waiting for him to fall down dead.

If you remember Paul's experience, the first reaction to his getting bit was everyone considered him a murderer who, although he had escaped the sea, judgement had pursued him. However, when he showed no ill effect of that snake, then their opinion changed 180 degrees...

Dear ZNPaaneah, it is interesting that you bring forth Paul's experience after the shipwreck. So you must think there is some direct corollary here? It appears that basically you see Steve Isitt standing in the position of Paul. Please help us understand further what correspondence you might see between these two events.

"Everyone is watching him" - Who is watching, everyone? The shunners? The forum readers?

"they are all ashamed of their behavior" Who is ashamed of their behavior? I have not yet met anyone aligned with the LSM/LC who is ashamed about what has happened to Steve.

"they have the same conscience as you and I" - Who in this story do you think has the same conscience as you and I? Are you assuming that both you and I have a healthy conscience???

"Everyone considered him a murderer" - Who considers him a murderer? And who is the real murderer? Who is the one who really brings DEATH? Jesus taught that one who is angry in his heart toward another is guilty of murder!

"he showed no ill effect of that snake" - Who represents the snake in this story?

Please elaborate...

P.S.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Dear ZNPaaneah, it is interesting that you bring forth Paul's experience after the shipwreck. So you must think there is some direct corollary here? It appears that basically you see Steve Isitt standing in the position of Paul. Please help us understand further what correspondence you might see between these two events.

"Everyone is watching him" - Who is watching, everyone? The shunners? The forum readers?

I was referring to those shunning him.

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

"they are all ashamed of their behavior" Who is ashamed of their behavior? I have not yet met anyone aligned with the LSM/LC who is ashamed about what has happened to Steve.

In my experience, the vast majority of saints are sheep. The leaders tell them to shun someone, they do it. However, they still have a conscience. I have seen saints struggle greatly with doing something that their conscience disagrees with yet they feel the pressure from the church leaders to do and fear to rebel. Psalms talks about "deep calleth unto deep". I believe that this kind of trial is a trial of your faith, and part of that faith is believing that the saints have a conscience and that deep calleth unto deep.

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

"they have the same conscience as you and I" - Who in this story do you think has the same conscience as you and I? Are you assuming that both you and I have a healthy conscience???

I am referring to the typical saint who is pressured into shunning a brother with little or no other basis other than the church leadership has said so. I assume the typical saint is a born again Christian with an active conscience, not one that has been seared. I am not referring to the leaders who in my mind may have seared their conscience by now, don't know.

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

"Everyone considered him a murderer" - Who considers him a murderer? And who is the real murderer? Who is the one who really brings DEATH? Jesus taught that one who is angry in his heart toward another is guilty of murder!

"he showed no ill effect of that snake" - Who represents the snake in this story?

Please elaborate...

P.S.

Acts 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my experience, the vast majority of saints are sheep. The leaders tell them to shun someone, they do it. However, they still have a conscience. I have seen saints struggle greatly with doing something that their conscience disagrees with yet they feel the pressure from the church leaders to do and fear to rebel.

A few days ago, you were incredulous that anything was even happening to Steve. Later the same day, you announced that "they are all ashamed of their behavior" toward Steve.

Gosh, would you also like to inform us that "they are all ashamed" of rejecting Columbus and Ann Arbor? Gimme a break....

P.S. Do sheep feel guilty when they follow?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

A few days ago, you were incredulous that anything was even happening to Steve. Later the same day, you announced that "they are all ashamed of their behavior" toward Steve.

Gosh, would you also like to inform us that "they are all ashamed" of rejecting Columbus and Ann Arbor? Gimme a break....

P.S. Do sheep feel guilty when they follow?

When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,

The difference is that the Germans knew that there was no intrinsic evil in Jews and other non-Germanic/Aryan groups. In the case of the LRC, they actually believe what they are told. Their conscience is directed by the firm belief that there is something spiritually amiss and that the "brothers" are correct to point it out and condemn it.

They feel no shame. They think it is right. They are fully under the influence of the heavenLee kool aid, now fortified with vitamin BB. They know that their teachings are correct and blessed by God.

Besides, how can they be wrong when they're so sincere?

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

When did I express incredulity?

I do not want anyone to draw the conclusion that I know what any individual is thinking, but as a rule our conscience will condemn us if we are not walking according to the truth. When you look at the holocaust you discover that many Germans were ashamed of what was going on even though they didn't act. The reality of the holocaust was not that all Germans are monsters, not even that the majority of Germans were monsters,

When you say we all have the same conscience, or that "they all feel" such-and-such ... well ... to me ... that kinda implies that you do know (think you know) what ever'body else is thinkin'.

But maybe that's just me.