Lee and the book of Job

[awareness]

Don't be so quick to jump me bro. I have quoted the whole verse on this forum more than once. And referenced book, chapter and verse.

From Strongs, on the word evil (calamity) in the verse

H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]


Does that meet your standard of thoroughness?

[zeek]

Consider the following syllogism.

God created everything.
Evil is a thing.
Therefore, God created evil.

If God did not create everything, then someone else could have created evil. But then you have two creators and hence, reality is dualistic and God is not all powerful.

There is also a theological tradition that evil does not really exist. Evil is merely the absence of good. If so, there is no devil or Satan.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by zeek

Consider the following syllogism.

God created everything.
Evil is a thing.
Therefore, God created evil.

If God did not create everything, then someone else could have created evil. But then you have two creators and hence, reality is dualistic and God is not all powerful.

There is also a theological tradition that evil does not really exist. Evil is merely the absence of good. If so, there is no devil or Satan.

Were jumping back into the topic of Elvis has left the building. After all that still the same...

Evil is good gone wrong. If pure evil existed then I would put into question whether or not that was created from a all good God. But I cannot. Anything anyone has ever done, any evil act can be rationalized to benefit one group/person. unless some kind of irrational mental disability was present.

God did not create evil. God created the possibility of choice which allowed for "good gone wrong".

And were back to free will again lookie here..

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Leomon

Were jumping back into the topic of Elvis has left the building. After all that still the same...

Evil is good gone wrong. If pure evil existed then I would put into question whether or not that was created from a all good God. But I cannot. Anything anyone has ever done, any evil act can be rationalized to benefit one group/person. unless some kind of irrational mental disability was present.

God did not create evil. God created the possibility of choice which allowed for "good gone wrong".

And were back to free will again lookie here..

In the parable of Job, it is not humans doing evil. It's God and the devil conspiring together to do evil to humans and critters [Job's children, servents, and sheep]. The fire that burned up the servants and the she ids called "the fire of God" chapter 1:16. I'm not making this stuff up. It's right in the Bible.

[UntoHim]

Harold you missed the point, and on purpose I suspect.

God did not say "I create evil". The Hebrew word rendered "evil" was juxtaposed to "Shalom". This comparison was made immediately after comparison of light and darkness. The comparisons could not be more clearer. Would you argue that the opposite of light is not darkness? The opposite of shalom/peace is NOT "evil" in the conventional understanding of the word in English.

You are doing what Witness Lee did when he taught that when the word spirit (pneuma) is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:45 it MUST refer to the Holy Spirit, and he did this despite the context of the whole verse and whole chapter it was placed within.

I am not being flippant when I say we need to interpret the Bible with the Bible. This does not mean that we cannot bring other forms of logic and common sense into the mix, especially when it comes to the matter of context.

Does it teach anywhere in the Bible that God created evil? Did any of the prophets teach that God created evil? Did any of the writers of the New Testament teach that God created evil?

[UntoHim]

Zeek, no God did not create everything.

God did not create sin or greed or evil for that matter.

Did God create the Jet Airplane? Did God create the evilness in those men that flew the Jet Airplane into the World Trade Center?

This is a philosophical bottomless pit that has no place here on this thread, and probably not on this forum. It will only lead us to discussions of the "endless questions" that the Word warns us not to delve into.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

[COLOR="Blue"]Zeek, no God did not create everything.

God did not create sin or greed or evil for that matter.

Well the book of Job reveals that God let's the devil do his dirty work ... and limits him. So God is too behind evil, ultimately. Sorry UnToHim, but that's what the Bible says.

This is a philosophical bottomless pit that has no place here on this thread, and probably not on this forum.

I'm glad you brought this up. So what and who belongs on this forum? I thought anyone out or in the local church belongs on this forum.

So is this forum only for those that came out of the LC and became Bible thumpin evangelicals or fundamentalists?

I thump the Bible. But I'm not an evangelical or fundamentalist.

Witness Lee based his whole theology on the Bible being the word of God. In that way he was able to puzzle piece verses of the Bible together to develop his systematized theology.

So as far as I'm concerned, that assumption and premise is fair game.

But if not, if there are perimeters that limit exLCers from sharing what they've become since the local church, and they have to come out with only certain beliefs and points of view, please let us know.

Maybe I don't belong on this forum.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by awareness

.....I'm glad you brought this up. So what and who belongs on this forum? I thought anyone out or in the local church belongs on this forum.....

But if not, if there are perimeters that limit exLCers from sharing what they've become since the local church, and they have to come out with only certain beliefs and points of view, please let us know.

Maybe I don't belong on this forum.

I cast my lot in with awareness...

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I cast my lot in with awareness...

Excellent! So do I. Thanks Ray.

But since when is a philosophical bottomless pit a WHO? I think it's a WHAT and that was my point. Unless somebody registers under the unsername "philosophical bottomless pit" then I think everybody's gonna be safe. Not to worry guys!

Now, the title of this thread is "Lee and the book of Job". The thread starter has yet to really get into Lee's commentary of the book of Job. Instead he has continually been thrusting upon us his well-known views of the Bible being mostly a collection of fables, parables and myths. This wouldn't be so bad a thing if he would stick to the most basic rules of logic and working within obvious context.

Let's see if my friend awareness cares to color within the lines for awhile.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Excellent! So do I. Thanks Ray.

But since when is a philosophical bottomless pit a WHO? I think it's a WHAT and that was my point. Unless somebody registers under the unsername "philosophical bottomless pit" then I think everybody's gonna be safe. Not to worry guys!

Now, the title of this thread is "Lee and the book of Job". The thread starter has yet to really get into Lee's commentary of the book of Job. Instead he has continually been thrusting upon us his well-known views of the Bible being mostly a collection of fables, parables and myths. This wouldn't be so bad a thing if he would stick to the most basic rules of logic and working within obvious context.

Let's see if my friend awareness cares to color within the lines for awhile.

Good point. And thanks fer the welcome. Sorry I get carried away at times, and color outside the lines.

But I think Witness Lee done a bad job on the book of Job Life-Study precisely because he couldn't admit the truths revealed in Job, between God, the devil, and Job and his family.

It's hard to admit that God can be indifferent to suffering and misfortune. But we see it all the time. We saw it recently with hurricane Irene, over 40 died, and now with the drought and fires in Texas, even after over 3000 believers in the Bible as the word of God praying for rain. God said no ... and here's some fires.

The Jews during the Holocaust put God on trial for being indifferent to their suffering, and found Him guilty. Then afterwards went back to their respective cells to pray.

As humans we just have to accept the indifference of God. And there's nothing we can do about it.

The answer in a nutshell of Jesus was to just surrender to it.

And Lord knows many times, during suffering beyond anything I've ever contemplated, I've found victory in surrendering.