Evil Books

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is the public trials that victimize the woman a second time. Defense attorneys are permitted to expose her life before all. If she is not badly battered, the attorney says it was "consensual." None of this should happen in the church, however, and especially not at a ministry like LSM. Credible witnesses and godly mature men are all that's needed.

I would think that it is far more difficult for the victim to keep silent, knowing the perpetrator gets off scot-free, and worrying who his next victim will be. This is why Paul's words are so wise and instructive concerning leaders, "those that sin rebuke before all that the rest may be warned." All are warned about sin, and all are warned about PL. Those who know the victim are now free to comfort and encourage her without shame, and those who do not know the victim's identity, still can be warned.

This makes the LC constructs of "The Work" and the "Local Ground" all the more error prone. WL and company used both paradigms to protect his darling boys. Since WL headed up "The Work," he silenced all the brothers by saying he would "take care of it." Who would dare question WL? Since discipline was supposedly governed by the matter of the "Local Ground," only Anaheim could address the problem of WL, and who was the lead elder in Anaheim, but WL. It was widely said that Anaheim was "WL's baby, since he raised her up."

This is a great protection against wolves. Clearly the objective of a wolf is to devour the sheep. If when they get caught doing sin they are rebuked before all it shows that the other leaders are not also wolves and it protects the sheep. Since WL covered up the sins of obvious wolves like PL, then I think it is reasonable to conclude several things:

His treatment in this case violated the word of God, He did not display a care for the sheep, and He did display a oneness with the wolves.

But I believe this event is also a window into the souls of others who were involved: JI is one, RG and BP and KR are others. The idea that KR would knowingly lie in order to do the whitewash makes him one with WL in this crime. Clearly his care and concern was not with the sheep.

Likewise I find it very egregious that RG and BP could close their eyes and ears to this.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But I believe this event is also a window into the souls of others who were involved: JI is one, RG and BP and KR are others. The idea that KR would knowingly lie in order to do the whitewash makes him one with WL in this crime. Clearly his care and concern was not with the sheep.

Likewise I find it very egregious that RG and BP could close their eyes and ears to this.

How did KR fit into all this? When did he knowingly lie? Never heard of him until Affirmation and Critique came out.
As for BP and RG, I do not know what to say. To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

How did KR fit into all this? When did he knowingly lie? Never heard of him until Affirmation and Critique came out.

As for BP and RG, I do not know what to say. To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable.

All of the top-level Blendeds are complicit in the coverups. I can only surmise that they did this for base gain. You have said it well -- "To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable." That is what happened.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

All of the top-level Blendeds are complicit in the coverups. I can only surmise that they did this for base gain. You have said it well -- "To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable." That is what happened.

I wouldn't use such a blanket statement. If you consider Chris Wilde a top-level blended, he was far removed from the events. Was he in Pullman at the time, or did that come later? Anyways I see Chris as I do current local elders and later blendeds; believing what they were told.
Since 1997, the blendeds who took party have had ample opportunity to repent and make a turn and have not. "They should have some response" , but have yet to respond.

[UntoHim]

So there are "levels" of blendeds? Is it like those fancy deserts served in a tall skinny glass where there are different levels of stuff... chocolate on one level, vanilla on another and strawberry on another? That's not very "blended". What up with that?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So there are "levels" of blendeds? Is it like those fancy deserts served in a tall skinny glass where there are different levels of stuff... chocolate on one level, vanilla on another and strawberry on another? That's not very "blended". What up with that?

A blended hierarchy in the union sense. Those with seniority are given benefit of the doubt.

[UntoHim]

Yeah I think you got that right Terry!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So there are "levels" of blendeds? Is it like those fancy deserts served in a tall skinny glass where there are different levels of stuff... chocolate on one level, vanilla on another and strawberry on another? That's not very "blended". What up with that?

Them snot Blendeds, thems be parfays.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Terry

I wouldn't use such a blanket statement. If you consider Chris Wilde a top-level blended, he was far removed from the events. Was he in Pullman at the time, or did that come later? Anyways I see Chris as I do current local elders and later blendeds; believing what they were told.
Since 1997, the blendeds who took party have had ample opportunity to repent and make a turn and have not. "They should have some response" , but have yet to respond.

Sorry, but the idea that their trusted PR man, who they trusted to do the interview with National Public Radio, is not well aware of the things we speak of publicly on the Internet, sorry, but I find this preposterous.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Sorry, but the idea that their trusted PR man, who they trusted to do the interview with National Public Radio, is not well aware of the things we speak of publicly on the Internet, sorry, but I find this preposterous.

We have discussed this before.

It is better to have a spokesman who does not know the "whole truth," kind of like the White House uses their press secretary -- if he knows too much, he cannot lie with a clear conscience.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have discussed this before.

It is better to have a spokesman who does not know the "whole truth," kind of like the White House uses their press secretary -- if he knows too much, he cannot lie with a clear conscience.

For small jobs, absolutely. Likewise for big, one-time jobs. Use the patsy, then discard him.

I just don't see Chris Wilde filling that role. He's been too trusted for too long. As they say, good lawyers don't ask questions unless they already know the answer.

P.S. I'm glad you brought up the example of the White House press secretary, is this kind of like when Sandy Berger came out of that room, with those pieces of paper falling out of his pockets? He didn't know what he was looking for, did he...

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have discussed this before.

It is better to have a spokesman who does not know the "whole truth," kind of like the White House uses their press secretary -- if he knows too much, he cannot lie with a clear conscience.

To put it another way, who do you trust more? --

Loyal follower with blinders on (oh, he's harmless, he doesn't see anything) --

OR

Loyal follower, free of blinders, looks at everything there is to know, then turns, looks at you, smiles, and says, Very good, when do we start?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Sorry, but the idea that their trusted PR man, who they trusted to do the interview with National Public Radio, is not well aware of the things we speak of publicly on the Internet, sorry, but I find this preposterous.

Before becoming the pr guy, Chris was a local elder. So like all other local elders, he's one who could and would believe whatever the official word was.

[Indiana]

Paper in the Wind - 1988

1. I once asked a brother about a former member named Alex and suggested we contact him. His sincere reply was that he didn’t think Alex was for the ministry. Therefore, the brother wasn’t inclined to want to visit him. This was in 1994. I ran into Alex four years ago and found out what Alex is FOR. He is FOR the Lord, just as he was formerly. He spoke very fondly of all the saints and of the elders and of brother Lee and his ministry. He had been asked or advised to leave by two elders, as a 23 year-old with questions about the new way.

2. A current elder in Redding, CA, (last I heard), formerly an elder in Tempe, told me by phone in 1999 that once he was helping a 24-year old brother in Tempe who was troubled by matters in the late eighties turmoil and that he, the elder, was doing everything he could to help this young brother, even to the extent that the elder called Brother Lee for fellowship. Brother Lee felt to suggest to him to let this troubled one go and become as “a paper in the wind” and to “let the wind take care of him”. I asked the elder if that sounded like Christ to him. He paused at this legitimate question as if he knew the obvious answer; but he did not answer the question. He changed the subject instead to John Ingalls and made negative remarks about him. I was shocked at the indignant and defensive posture he suddenly took.

Brother Lee’s main concern and encouragement was for the elder to spend his time caring for the positive ones and new ones who were not contaminated or dissenting. Therefore, taking the advice of Brother Lee, the elder let the young person go. He had changed his stance from caring for a young brother who had been stumbled, to lining up with the proper mentality of a soldier in the army for “the Lord’s new move”.

3. WITNESS LEE’s word toward the end of the turmoil: "To avoid further damage by the present turmoil, we need to practice a strict quarantine over this contagious disease. Whenever any of the dissenting ones attempts to contact you, no matter in what way and in what polite or "spiritual "manner", you should keep the apostles' teaching in Romans 16:17 and Titus 3:10 to turn away from him and reject him. Do not try to exhort or argue with such people or to find out what and how they really are. If you say anything to them, you will "swallow their bait" and they will "hook" you. You are a gentleman, a sincere, honest Christian, and a humble follower of the Lord, but they are under the deceiving of the devil and unavoidably bear some of his poison. It is impossible to talk or argue with them without being contaminated by their poison. Instead of spending the time to meet with this kind of dissenting ones, we had better save our time to pray and get into the Word so that we may have some riches of Christ to minister to the saints.” (The Ministry of the New Testament and the Teaching and Fellowship of the Apostle, pp 32-33)


Br. Lee's word on The Proper Receiving of the Saints 1968

“It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in
a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the
matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will
probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the
Apostle said, “”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful
disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the
faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and
keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the
saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different
opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for
God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received
him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s
receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving.
Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our
assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based
upon God’s receiving – nothing else.

God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His
Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts
he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God
receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our
receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs
from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more
broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life.
God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in
accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive.
Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me
I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him,
receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive
people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes
in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must
receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in
so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no
choice but to receive him, for the Lord has received him. This is why the
Apostle said, ‘Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to
the glory of God.’ We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must
have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper
unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian
and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To
practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving
is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!” (W. Lee, Practical Expression
of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968)


Thirty years later
Witness Lee: This is a lesson for us all. The co-workers in different
places need to learn; all responsible brothers in all localities need to
learn. The eyes of the brothers and sisters all need to be opened. Too
many things we need to learn. We have acted wrongly in the past,
including me, I have to admit. I have had very painful repentance before
the Lord. I am very sorry! I am sorry for the Body of Christ - not only
for the brothers and sisters among us, but also for the ones in the
denominations. You have to bring this message back and read it over
and over again in mutual fellowship. Then you will see we were wrong
before… To understand and analyze this needs a fair bit of effort. Again I
say, a few of you must come together through pray-reading, studying,
reciting, and prophesying. We must learn from our past mistakes to
receive people according to God's Son...undeviating… not deviating a bit
from the path…” (Chinese New Year Conference, Anaheim, Feb 1997, WL’s final message)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

All of the top-level Blendeds are complicit in the coverups. I can only surmise that they did this for base gain. You have said it well -- "To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable." That is what happened.

Originally Posted by Terry

Before becoming the pr guy, Chris was a local elder. So like all other local elders, he's one who could and would believe whatever the official word was.

I'm not understanding why you are making this point again.

I said that "All of the top-level Blendeds are complicit in the coverups."

You said, "I wouldn't use such a blanket statement. If you consider Chris Wilde a top-level blended, he was far removed from the events."

That's why I said that, "Chris Wilde is not a top-level blended."

Now you say, "Before becoming the PR guy, Chris was a local elder. So like all other local elders, he's one who could and would believe whatever the official word was."

My point from the beginning was that "top level blendeds" are "in the know." They are not just those who were spoon fed the official LSM line. "Top level blendeds" know better. "Top level blendeds" witnessed unrighteousnesses, and "top level blendeds" committed unrighteousnesses on behalf of WL and LSM.

What makes "top level blendeds" part of the "inner blended sanctum" is that they are also guilty of the same unrighteousnesses. The ones in the "inner blended sanctum" are part of the "inner blended sanctum" because they have both witnessed unrighteousness and also committed unrighteousness themselves.

I hope this is completely clear.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Terry

Before becoming the pr guy, Chris was a local elder. So like all other local elders, he's one who could and would believe whatever the official word was.

"All local elders"? Some, sure. I can't believe that all the local elders are so ignorant.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

I wouldn't use such a blanket statement. If you consider Chris Wilde a top-level blended, he was far removed from the events. Was he in Pullman at the time, or did that come later? Anyways I see Chris as I do current local elders and later blendeds; believing what they were told.
Since 1997, the blendeds who took party have had ample opportunity to repent and make a turn and have not. "They should have some response" , but have yet to respond.

Chris Wilde is not a "top-level blended."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Chris Wilde is not a "top-level blended."

The top level blenders, that would be the whip cream level, who is cherry level

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

How did KR fit into all this? When did he knowingly lie? Never heard of him until Affirmation and Critique came out.
As for BP and RG, I do not know what to say. To make members of the Body expendable at the expense of a man's ministry is unfathomable.

I thought KR was the one that put together the book about the JI affair that was a white wash.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I thought KR was the one that put together the book about the JI affair that was a white wash.

That's right, Kerry co-authored that book with Ron Kangas.