Last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

[Paul Miletus]

Originally Posted by Thankful Jane;1254[FONT=Verdana

Here are Witness Lee's words: “In His resurrection a life-giving Spirit was produced (1 [/FONT]Cor. 15:45). Before Christ’s resurrection, there was not such a life-giving Spirit in the universe. John 7:39 says that ‘the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified’; that is, Jesus had not yet entered into resurrection (Luke 24:26). On the day that He entered into resurrection, the life-giving Spirit was produced.” Witness Lee, The Organic Union in God’s Relationship with Man (Anaheim, CA: Living Stream Ministry, 1993), p. 40.

This is a false teaching. The Holy Spirit existed in completeness before the resurrection of Christ and it could "give life" before the resurrection of Christ:

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Look closely at this verse. This Spirit -- the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead -- is the one Paul says is in us today! And it clearly was already in existence before Christ was raised from the dead. So, what spirit then is “the Life Giving Spirit” that Lee is referring to when he says “before Christ’s resurrection, there was not such a life-giving Spirit in the universe?” Lee says “the life giving Spirit” was "produced" on the day Christ entered into resurrection.” Re-read what Lee said. He plainly said this. I am not twisting his words in any way but calling them out for what they actually say.

Lee’s teaching is a false teaching. According to his very own words the Spirit he is talking about in I Corinthians 15:45b cannot be the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not produced on that day.

You have quoted Romans 8:11, but please allow me to include verses 9 and 10 --

Romans 8
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Again, Brother Witness Lee explained --

"In Romans 8:9-11 the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ Himself, and the indwelling Spirit are interchangeably used. These are not four persons but one person. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Christ is Christ Himself, and Christ Himself is the life-giving Spirit dwelling in us to impart the Triune God into our being."

Again, the Old Testament scriptures (Exodus 30:23-25) will be very helpful in our understanding regarding the Spirit that "was not yet" in John 7:37-39.

This life-giving Spirit is the all-inclusive, compound Spirit typified by the compound anointing ointment in Exodus 30:23-25. Now the Spirit is no longer just the Spirit of God typified by the olive oil but is the compound Spirit typified by the ointment formed by compounding a hin of olive oil with four spices—myrrh and cinnamon (signifying Christ's death with its effectiveness) and calamus and cassia (signifying Christ's resurrection with its power). As the compounded, all-inclusive, life-giving Spirit, He is now an ointment compounded with the four factors of God, man, Christ's death, and Christ's resurrection.

Thankful Jane, I totally agree with you that the Spirit "was already in existence before Christ was raised from the dead as typified by the olive oil as shown in Exodus 30:23-25. However, with Christ's death and resurrection (as implied in John 7:39 - Jesus was not yet glorified), the Spirit became a life-giving Spirit (all-inclusive, compound Spirit).

Shawn's post explains it more clearer...

Originally Posted by Shawn

Hi TJ,

I hope you caught the distinction between the use of life giving Spirit vs. the Holy Spirit you mentioned in refuting the other posters position.

Yes, the Holy Spirit has always existed, but the Holy Spirit could not enter into man as the giver of Gods life, until the death and ressurrection of our Lord Jesus; it was at this point that the Holy Spirit could become the life giving Spirit.This is the main point as I understood it from brother Lee's ministry. Not two Spirits but one Spirit that became the life giver to man after the Lords ressurrection.

Brother Witness Lee's teaching on this subject is very clear based on the Word of God. He was able to interpret the Word of God (John 7:37-39) using the Word of God (Exodus 30-23-25).

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

PaulM do you mean that the Father and the Son became the Holy Spirit after the resurrection?

[Peter Debelak]

I personally think the crux of the disagreement here again boils down to the language Lee used and the emphases he employed – rather than on whether he was patently wrong/heretical/etc…

God is spirit. Always has been, always will be. Its how he does that cool thing of being everywhere at once.

The Son of God, (aka the “second Person” of the Trinity), has eternally existed and has eternally co-existed with the other “two Persons” of the Trinity. Same with the Holy Spirit (aka the “third Person” of the Trinity).

But God was not, in eternity past, human. He was not “flesh.” Nor did humanity have any “divinity” as such.

When Christ came in the flesh, he brought divinity into humankind. But he was flesh – which meant he was limited spacially. His being had defined limits of time and space. God had never experienced this before. So, we should be careful about how broad we make the scope of statements like “God is unchangeable.” It doesn’t make that phrase incorrect to say that it has a particular scope.

Further, the actual experience of a human life, a life of temptation and of limitation, was never “part of” or experienced by God prior to Christ’s incarnation and life.

When Christ incarnated, humanity and divinity were merged – but only in this physical being, Jesus, as he walked and moved on earth in time and space.

In resurrection, humanity – personified by ADAM – was merged with divinity as spirit, not just in the Person of Jesus, the physical being in time and space. No “entity” came into existence that was not already existing. There was just something that was “added” to that entity, which is spirit. There can be unintended adverse effects of using this language, but I think it is apt to say God went through a “process” and that humanity was “added” to God. What that means to me is that I do not have a High Priest that cannot be touched with a feeling of my weaknesses. Inside me is God – God as Spirit. It’s the same God who took on human form and went to the cross for me. Does that confound the second and third persons of the trinity? I don’t know. But the scripture hasn’t given me any commands not to “confound persons,” so I am not too concerned. Its just what the Bible seems to be teaching.

As always, I’m open to being taught, reproved, corrected, or instructed differently. .

Peter

[Arizona]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

I personally think the crux of the disagreement here again boils down to the language Lee used and the emphases he employed – rather than on whether he was patently wrong/heretical/etc…

God is spirit. Always has been, always will be. Its how he does that cool thing of being everywhere at once.

The Son of God, (aka the “second Person” of the Trinity), has eternally existed and has eternally co-existed with the other “two Persons” of the Trinity. Same with the Holy Spirit (aka the “third Person” of the Trinity).

But God was not, in eternity past, human. He was not “flesh.” Nor did humanity have any “divinity” as such.

When Christ came in the flesh, he brought divinity into humankind. But he was flesh – which meant he was limited spacially. His being had defined limits of time and space. God had never experienced this before. So, we should be careful about how broad we make the scope of statements like “God is unchangeable.” It doesn’t make that phrase incorrect to say that it has a particular scope.

Further, the actual experience of a human life, a life of temptation and of limitation, was never “part of” or experienced by God prior to Christ’s incarnation and life.

When Christ incarnated, humanity and divinity were merged – but only in this physical being, Jesus, as he walked and moved on earth in time and space.

In resurrection, humanity – personified by ADAM – was merged with divinity as spirit, not just in the Person of Jesus, the physical being in time and space. No “entity” came into existence that was not already existing. There was just something that was “added” to that entity, which is spirit. There can be unintended adverse effects of using this language, but I think it is apt to say God went through a “process” and that humanity was “added” to God. What that means to me is that I do not have a High Priest that cannot be touched with a feeling of my weaknesses. Inside me is God – God as Spirit. It’s the same God who took on human form and went to the cross for me. Does that confound the second and third persons of the trinity? I don’t know. But the scripture hasn’t given me any commands not to “confound persons,” so I am not too concerned. Its just what the Bible seems to be teaching.

As always, I’m open to being taught, reproved, corrected, or instructed differently. .

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for saying in much more clear language what I tried to say previously. I agree,, and I hold this teaching to be truth. Let me add some further thought:

When I first came into contact with the saints at Elden Hall in 1970, I was not a christian but a rather good heathen. I had a marvelous experience of God's forgiveness and the Divine removal of extreme condemnation. But more than this, I first heard that I could be "much more saved by His life". Forgiveness was wonderful but I really, really needed to be saved from my fallen humanity.

This topic being discussed is to me more than just a conversation. If I have no way to contact this Living God, right here and right now, then I have a real problem. It is not enough for me to be forgiven and then just left on my own.

As I said before, there is one mediator between God and man and that is the same One who is now my High Priest bringing me to God. I do believe that if the humanity of Jesus Christ was not "added" to the Spirit in His resurrection then I have no way to fellowship with God and then how can I be "saved by His life"?

I do not believe that W Lee was the only, nor the first, to teach this and I hold that it is an imperative in our spiritual and subjective experience.

Thanks for listening.

Grace.

Arizona

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

I keep hearing people discuss the "humanity" of Christ. Would somebody please define this for me? Thanks!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by djohnson

I keep hearing people discuss the "humanity" of Christ. Would somebody please define this for me? Thanks!

DJ,

Perhaps you should open another topic. The "humanity" of Christ is beyond the scope of "Last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Nell

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

Nell both Peter and Arizona in their post recent posts on this thread used this term. I assume there is some connection with the topic of 1 Cor 15:45b otherwise they would not have brought it up. I'm just wondering what the definition is so I understand the conversation.

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Nell

DJ, Perhaps you should open another topic. The "humanity" of Christ is beyond the scope of "Last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Nell

Originally Posted by djohnson

Nell both Peter and Arizona in their post recent posts on this thread used this term. I assume there is some connection with the topic of 1 Cor 15:45b otherwise they would not have brought it up. I'm just wondering what the definition is so I understand the conversation.

The reason people bring up the “humanity” in this context is because this is what Lee taught and they believe it.

Lee said, This ointment signifies God, who is triune, after a long process becoming the all-inclusive compound Spirit to reach His chosen and redeemed people to be one with them...

It is not sufficient to be impressed with this matter in a doctrinal way. We need to pray, “Lord, show me the vision of the all-inclusive Spirit. Show me that today You are the all-inclusive Spirit compounded of divinity, humanity, incarnation, human living, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. Lord, I need to see that Your uplifted humanity, Your all-inclusive, wonderful and mysterious death, and Your indescribable resurrection have been compounded into the Spirit.” If we see this vision, we shall pray, “Lord, I thank You that the Spirit is now the compound Spirit. This all-inclusive life-giving Spirit is the Triune God Himself reaching me, anointing me, making Himself one with me, and making me one with Him."

Every one who embraced this teaching came to believe that Christ’s “humanity” (among other things) got added to the Spirit by Christ's death and resurrection. After hearing the constant repetition and indoctrination by Lee they became convinced that this was the only way/reason they could experience God. Arizona made this clear in (his/her?) last post. (Sorry, Arizona, I haven’t been following everything close enough to know which gender…).

People who believe this are actually saying that unless something was added to God He couldn't save them! This is not supported by the Bible. In fact it flies in the face of what Christ did as the Lamb of God. God tabernacled in the flesh. According to Hebrews 5, the flesh was the body God prepared through the virgin birth so Christ could do the Father's will and die on the cross for us. Salvation is dependent on Christ dying as the Lamb of God. Period. That one act was the pivotal point in all history.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. And that salvation includes more than initial forgiveness. Having been saved by his death, we are now being saved by His life. His life is the Spirit of God that we now have access to because of the payment of our debt. This Spirit is not a new version or model of the Spirit of God. Did God needed improvement? Was He inadequate?

What we experienced at the time of our salvation was the Spirit of God, not an upgraded model!

The Bible clearly says that the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead (gave Him life) dwells in us to give us life. It is the same Spirit. (Romans 8:11)

Once you take the step that Lee took to believe that something could be added to God to make something that never existed before in the universe, there is no end to where you can go with this. You will soon be convinced you are becoming God. Why not? What is to stop such a thought and progression? If God can have things added to Him that weren’t there before and those things become God, then you can be added and become God, too. Sound familiar? Before long, the Lamb of God is lost in the dust of man glorying in becoming God.

The value of the Lamb of God is overshadowed by this teaching in the world of Lee, making this teaching something higher and more important than Christ and His redemptive act. The gospel is that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son to die for our sins. This is the gospel we preach, not the gospel of the processed Triune God. This is Lee's gospel and He put it above the Lamb of God in importance. How awful that is.

Thankful Jane

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by djohnson

I keep hearing people discuss the "humanity" of Christ. Would somebody please define this for me? Thanks!

DJ, that's what happened xmas morning, have you forgotten?

[KSA]

So are you saying I do not have spiritual discernment? An easy loophole for you, don't you think so?

You say that the Spirit has not changed, but you also say that humanity was added to the Spirit. If something was added to the Spirit, it means that the Spirit changed. If the humanity was added to the Spirit, does it mean that a human body was also added to the Spirit.

[Paul Miletus]

Originally Posted by KSA

You say that the Spirit has not changed, but you also say that humanity was added to the Spirit. If something was added to the Spirit, it means that the Spirit changed. If the humanity was added to the Spirit, does it mean that a human body was also added to the Spirit.

Prior to verse 45 of 1 Corinthians 15 it says "If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."

43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

How can we say "that a human body was also added to the Spirit"? The Lord Jesus human body became a life-giving Spirit. The Lord Jesus was "raised a spiritual body".

And look at the following verse...

2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

This verse tells us that we should not know Christ after the flesh but as the life-giving Spirit because as the last Adam, He became a life-giving Spirit.

[KSA]

Originally Posted by Paul Miletus

How can we say "that a human body was also added to the Spirit"? The Lord Jesus human body became a life-giving Spirit. The Lord Jesus was "raised a spiritual body".

You are dancing around. First, you say the the humanity of Jesus was added to the Holy Spirit, but now you say that the body of Christ became a life-giving spirit. So what is it? I can agree that the body of Christ became a life-giving spirit in a sense that His body is now spiritual. What I cannot agree with is that humanity was added to the Holy Spirit, otherwise it would mean that the Holy Spirit now has a human body. Witness Lee also taught that the humanity of Jesus is now in our spirit. Does it mean that Jesus' glorified body is in my spirit? How do you understand humanity? Witness Lee understood it as human nature. So it follows that I have my own human nature, but in addition to this I have Jesus' human nature in my spirit.

[Paul Miletus]

Originally Posted by KSA

You are dancing around. First, you say the the humanity of Jesus was added to the Holy Spirit, but now you say that the body of Christ became a life-giving spirit. So what is it? I can agree that the body of Christ became a life-giving spirit in a sense that His body is now spiritual. What I cannot agree with is that humanity was added to the Holy Spirit, otherwise it would mean that the Holy Spirit now has a human body. Witness Lee also taught that the humanity of Jesus is now in our spirit. Does it mean that Jesus' glorified body is in my spirit? How do you understand humanity? Witness Lee understood it as human nature. So it follows that I have my own human nature, but in addition to this I have Jesus' human nature in my spirit.

The Holy Spirit is Spirit. The Lord Jesus became flesh in His incarnation and became a life-giving Spirit in His death and resurrectiion.

You must have easily forgotten about the 9 same phrases of "It is as the Spirit" as was provided in my earlier post.

The Spirit we have received is not merely the Spirit of God possessing solely the divine element. The Spirit we Christians have received is the Spirit compounded with divinity, humanity, human living, suffering, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. God is in the Spirit. The uplifted humanity of Jesus and His human living and suffering are also in the Spirit. Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension are all in this one Spirit, so with this Spirit there is the bountiful supply. Paul could suffer persecution and imprisonment because of the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. This supply became his personal and daily salvation. Even in chains and prison he still magnified Christ and lived Christ (Phil. 1:19-21a). He magnified Christ, not by his energy or by his own strength, but by the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

[KSA]

Here is an article I found helpful regarding life-giving Spirit. Enjoy!

PS. It seems that the word with hyperlink is not highlighted. Just click on the word article.