Last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

UntoHim · 07-28-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

..Yes, the Holy Spirit has always existed, but the Holy Spirit could not enter into man as the giver of Gods life, until the death and ressurrection of our Lord Jesus; it was at this point that the Holy Spirit could become the life giving Spirit.This is the main point as I understood it from brother Lee's ministry. Not two Spirits but one Spirit that became the life giver to man after the Lords ressurrection.

Shawn, in order for God to "enter into man as the giver of God's life", it was NOT GOD that had to change but US. WE had to repent (change), We had to be cleansed.. We had to be forgiven, the changing was all on our part and NOT God's. The Spirit has always, always been life giving. God is life, the Holy Spirit is God therefore HE IS LIFE and gives life to every creature. He did not have to change or even be "intensified" to give us life.

Shawn · 07-28-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Shawn, in order for God to "enter into man as the giver of God's life", it was NOT GOD that had to change but US. WE had to repent (change), We had to be cleansed.. We had to be forgiven, the changing was all on our part and NOT God's. The Spirit has always, always been life giving. God is life, the Holy Spirit is God therefore HE IS LIFE and gives life to every creature. He did not have to change or even be "intensified" to give us life.

I agree with you in that man had to change from his sinful position, but it was not we who changed, for we are still sinners after we receive the Lord, It was the Lord in His humanity that gave us the forgiviness of sins, that we can repent and become born again.

Yes, the Spirit could always give life, but it was not until the LAST ADAM that this life could be received by us.

I am not an WL defender, but the simple explanation of the verse agrees with the thought that the Last Adam became a life giving spirit. your explanation of your perspective is technically right, but argues with the context of the verse. why argue with the word of God? Or, should we put a disclaimer at the end of the verse that this Spirit of course, was always life giving?

djohnson(XLCmember) · 07-28-2008, 06:59 PM

Shawn what is "humanity"? "The Lord in his humanity..." what does that mean?

KSA · 07-30-2008, 01:24 AM

You again base your doctrine on allegory. It is okay to use allegories, but first the clear teaching should be established. Now, please, show me where in the New Testament it says that humanity was added to the Spirit? Humanity includes human body, there is no humanity without a body. Are you going to tell us that the Spirit now has human body?

Paul Miletus · 07-30-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSA

You again base your doctrine on allegory. It is okay to use allegories, but first the clear teaching should be established. Now, please, show me where in the New Testament it says that humanity was added to the Spirit? Humanity includes human body, there is no humanity without a body. Are you going to tell us that the Spirit now has human body?

John 7:39 is crystal clear for the New Testament proof that the humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ was added to the Spirit.

Quote:

John 7
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

In addition, RcV's footnote is so enlightening on this particular verse. Please take note the difference between the "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ" or the "Spirit of Jesus Christ":

Quote:

391 The Spirit of God was there from the beginning (Gen. 1:1-2), but at the time the Lord spoke this word, the Spirit as the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9), the Spirit of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19), was not yet, because the Lord had not yet been glorified. Jesus was glorified when He was resurrected (Luke 24:26). After Jesus' resurrection, the Spirit of God became the Spirit of the incarnated, crucified, and resurrected Jesus Christ, who was breathed into the disciples by Christ in the evening of the day on which He was resurrected (20:22). The Spirit is now the "another Comforter," the Spirit of reality promised by Christ before His death (14:16-17). When the Spirit was the Spirit of God, He had only the divine element. After He became the Spirit of Jesus Christ through Christ's incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, the Spirit had both the divine element and the human element, with all the essence and reality of the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ. Hence, the Spirit is now the all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus Christ as the living water for us to receive (vv. 38-39).

KSA · 07-30-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Miletus

John 7:39 is crystal clear for the New Testament proof that the humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ was added to the Spirit.

Crystal clear to who? I do not see "humanity was added to the Spirit" in this verse. And you did not answer my question: if the humanity of Christ is in the Spirit now, does the Spirit have a human body now? If not, what kind of humanity does the Spirit have? Can you have humanity without a body?

Paul Miletus · 07-30-2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSA

Crystal clear to who? I do not see "humanity was added to the Spirit" in this verse. And you did not answer my question: if the humanity of Christ is in the Spirit now, does the Spirit have a human body now? If not, what kind of humanity does the Spirit have? Can you have humanity without a body?

Sorry, but you have to spiritually discern these spiritual things and not use your physical eyes what happened in Exodus 30:23-24 which was fulfilled in John 7:39 and later in John 20:22.

You must have missed my earlier post regarding your question "does the Spirit have a human body now?" Please see below re-post:

Quote:

The Holy Spirit was not changed. It was the Lord Jesus two becomings should be noted. In His incarnation He became flesh (John 1:14); in His death and resurrection He became a life-giving Spirit (1Corinthians 15:45).

Allow me to post here the footnote from RcV on John 20:22. Please carefully note the phrase "It is as the Spirit" that was mentioned 9 times in the footnote.

Thankful Jane · 07-28-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

I agree with you in that man had to change from his sinful position, but it was not we who changed, for we are still sinners after we receive the Lord, It was the Lord in His humanity that gave us the forgiviness of sins, that we can repent and become born again.

You’ve lost me here, Shawn. It was the Lord dying as a perfect man that made it possible for us to be forgiven by believing He died in our place. The moment we believe, we are forgiven.

I hope I am not misunderstanding you here. What I just read sounds like you are saying we had to receive the Lord before we could repent and become born again (see what I bolded that sounds this way). I hear the gospel the other way around. Believe and be saved. Surely I am misunderstanding, so maybe you can clarify this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Yes, the Spirit could always give life, but it was not until the LAST ADAM that this life could be received by us.

This was because sin was separating us from a holy God. When the debt was paid, we were offered access to God by faith in Christ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

I am not an WL defender, but the simple explanation of the verse agrees with the thought that the Last Adam became a life giving spirit. your explanation of your perspective is technically right, but argues with the context of the verse. why argue with the word of God? Or, should we put a disclaimer at the end of the verse that this Spirit of course, was always life giving?

My explanation doesn’t argue with the context, nor with the word of God. The simple explanation of the verse according to the context is that Christ is a life-giving spirit, just as Adam was a living soul.

Shawn, we are discussing what Lee taught about this verse. He taught that “before Christ’s resurrection, there was not such a life-giving Spirit in the universe?” Do you agree with this statement?

Thankful Jane

Shawn · 07-29-2008, 02:13 AM

Hi TJ,

I only have a few minutes, so here goes.

The most important thing for one who can receive Jesus as their Savior is that it does not require a change; ie I do not have to change myself to be acceptable to God, only ask forforgiviness and recieve the free gift of salvation. All other religions require change.

Concerning the lifegiving part of the spirit, we are looking at two sides of the same coin; yes there has always been the life giving spirit, but to you and I we could only receive this life after the Last Adam.

Maybe there is some significance to the small "s" as others had mentioned?

Grace to you sister!

Shawn

07-28-2008, 06:59 PM	#3
djohnson(XLCmember) Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 318	Shawn what is "humanity"? "The Lord in his humanity..." what does that mean? __________________ My greatest joy is knowing Jesus Christ!

07-30-2008, 01:24 AM	#4
KSA Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Russia Posts: 173	You again base your doctrine on allegory. It is okay to use allegories, but first the clear teaching should be established. Now, please, show me where in the New Testament it says that humanity was added to the Spirit? Humanity includes human body, there is no humanity without a body. Are you going to tell us that the Spirit now has human body?

07-29-2008, 02:13 AM	#9
Shawn Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 54	Hi TJ, I only have a few minutes, so here goes. The most important thing for one who can receive Jesus as their Savior is that it does not require a change; ie I do not have to change myself to be acceptable to God, only ask forforgiviness and recieve the free gift of salvation. All other religions require change. Concerning the lifegiving part of the spirit, we are looking at two sides of the same coin; yes there has always been the life giving spirit, but to you and I we could only receive this life after the Last Adam. Maybe there is some significance to the small "s" as others had mentioned? Grace to you sister! Shawn