An Outsider's Story

[ToGodAlone]

In the interest of getting this a bit back on topic, does anyone else have some insight as to what I could do?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

In the interest of getting this a bit back on topic, does anyone else have some insight as to what I could do?

Run away as fast as you can. Get out, get away, and begin to flush the local church out of your system. Get out of the LC and then work for a few years to get the LC out of your head.

And leave that sister behind ... she's nothing but a future heartache. Better to have that heart break now then after you are much more invested.

And don't make any life long lasting decisions until you get your head clear of all the LC nonsense.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

In the interest of getting this a bit back on topic, does anyone else have some insight as to what I could do?

I hesitate to give advice, but in my experience, the local church was not really supportive of marriage. The leadership wanted you to spend all your time in meetings digesting Witness Lee's ministry. Couples could sit in meetings and jump up and down and shout together. But it was more of a parallel kind of activity than an interactive one.

Actually, my ex-wife and I got married in a joint meeting with another couple. All that happened was the elder of the church signed the marriage license and then we had a meeting where people jumped up and testified and shouted pretty much like every other meeting. Not exactly a propitious start. It was an interesting experience, but I wouldn't want to do it again.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I hesitate to give advice, but in my experience, the local church was not really supportive of marriage. The leadership wanted you to spend all your time in meetings digesting Witness Lee's ministry. Couples could sit in meetings and jump up and down and shout together. But it was more of a parallel kind of activity than an interactive one.

Actually, my ex-wife and I got married in a joint meeting with another couple. All that happened was the elder of the church signed the marriage license and then we had a meeting where people jumped up and testified and shouted pretty much like every other meeting. Not exactly a propitious start. It was an interesting experience, but I wouldn't want to do it again.

What a sad testimony. It's no wonder there were so many broken homes in the LC's. They encouraged marriages with little or no preparation. My own testimony is equally sad, so I am not speaking as a casual observer here. I was surrounded by marriages that were promoted by leaders, thinking naively that marriage was some magical "cure-all" for all of life's problems. LC Chinese leaders somehow believed that ancient customs from a rigid society would work in "liberated" America. I have to believe that many marriages failed simply because the parties finally "grew up," and then realized how very different they were.

What a tragedy that the many movements in the LC's also included marriage. Often it was just "the thing to do" for young people, like dumb sheep being led to slaughter, since all their friends were "doing it." I remember Cleveland in '77. TC had a "talk" with a bunch of singles, and shortly after we started to hear about wedding plans. It was somewhat like an hour-long TV show, except for the "happily ever after" part. None of these LC leaders ever took responsibility for their failed "match-making." The "Fiddler on the Roof" kept fiddling away. It took numerous LC divorces before most leaders decided to stop "playing God" and taking marriage more seriously.

I never did hear LC leaders speaking of "love" in the context of marriage. Instead it was that morbid, "she can't live with me without Christ, and I can't live with her without Christ. She is my cross, and I am her cross. Because of her I gain more Christ, and because of me she gains more Christ." Sound more like a "cage" than a cross. Was that supposed to be "good news." Some leaders even gave those "spiritual" messages during wedding meetings. Imagine what the families thought. Old fashioned traditional marriages from "poor, poor Christianity" held more hope than that!

[Paul Cox]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What a sad testimony. It's no wonder there were so many broken homes in the LC's. They encouraged marriages with little or no preparation. My own testimony is equally sad, so I am not speaking as a casual observer here. I was surrounded by marriages that were promoted by leaders, thinking naively that marriage was some magical "cure-all" for all of life's problems. LC Chinese leaders somehow believed that ancient customs from a rigid society would work in "liberated" America. I have to believe that many marriages failed simply because the parties finally "grew up," and then realized how very different they were.

What a tragedy that the many movements in the LC's also included marriage. Often it was just "the thing to do" for young people, like dumb sheep being led to slaughter, since all their friends were "doing it." I remember Cleveland in '77. TC had a "talk" with a bunch of singles, and shortly after we started to hear about wedding plans. It was somewhat like an hour-long TV show, except for the "happily ever after" part. None of these LC leaders ever took responsibility for their failed "match-making." The "Fiddler on the Roof" kept fiddling away. It took numerous LC divorces before most leaders decided to stop "playing God" and taking marriage more seriously.

I never did hear LC leaders speaking of "love" in the context of marriage. Instead it was that morbid, "she can't live with me without Christ, and I can't live with her without Christ. She is my cross, and I am her cross. Because of her I gain more Christ, and because of me she gains more Christ." Sound more like a "cage" than a cross. Was that supposed to be "good news." Some leaders even gave those "spiritual" messages during wedding meetings. Imagine what the families thought. Old fashioned traditional marriages from "poor, poor Christianity" held more hope than that!

It is very common for Chinese Local Church people to refer to their spouses as "My Brother," or "My Sister." It's clear that romantic love is very scarce among all those arranged marriages, which are all "Consecrated to Christ and the Church."

If you hear, "Our marriage is for Christ and the Church," run as fast as you can in the other direction. A marriage that is consecrated to Christ and the Church (aka, Local Church/Living Stream Church) will more than likely fall apart when Toto pulls back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz for one in the couple.

P.C.

[Suannehill]

I remember the push for marriage in Cleveland...to me it looked like too many young brothers considering themselves spiritual giants...and older brothers knowing that marriage can correct that in ALL of us...LOL
My favorite story from that time is that of a very sweet young sister who called her mother excitedly to announce her upcoming marriage...of course Mom asked his name...to which the sister said..."I don't KNOW". Now as a Mom I can't imagine getting a call like that!
But...she's still married and not with the LC.
So, marriage depends upon the couple and their faith in Jesus Christ.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

I remember the push for marriage in Cleveland...to me it looked like too many young brothers considering themselves spiritual giants...and older brothers knowing that marriage can correct that in ALL of us...LOL
My favorite story from that time is that of a very sweet young sister who called her mother excitedly to announce her upcoming marriage...of course Mom asked his name...to which the sister said..."I don't KNOW". Now as a Mom I can't imagine getting a call like that!
But...she's still married and not with the LC.
So, marriage depends upon the couple and their faith in Jesus Christ.

I remember Witness Lee saying something like, "It doesn't matter what sister. Find one, get married, and go on with Christ and the Church." I was surprised to find years later that Watchman Nee never considered marriage like that. That he advised taking it very seriously, and many factors should be considered before getting married.

I also remember Lee saying that both children and spouses were : "Little grinders." Get that. We were reduced to being little grinders. Lee was so demented.

[rayliotta]

[For a bit of irony, link to www.weather.com and see what they're saying about Lee.]

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Suannehill

I remember the push for marriage in Cleveland...to me it looked like too many young brothers considering themselves spiritual giants...and older brothers knowing that marriage can correct that in ALL of us...LOL

It just makes me sick looking back at how impulsively marriage was entered into. Immature elders promoting and hastening marriages without proper courtships, all expedited by WL's mandate of "no dating." Many of us were told specifically by elder L.C. in Columbus, "the church doesn't have time for weddings, just do something simple to satisfy your family."

So many important decisions were made with short term gains in view. So many important decisions were made without sufficient time to know the Lord's mind. My church was filled with zealous lieutenants wanting to decide the lives of younger brothers and sisters. Quite a far cry from WN's careful instruction concerning marriage.

The atmosphere of that church had little sympathy for those who spent time with their wives or children. Things like that had to be done in secret. No vacations were allowed in those early days. I remember the sense of outrage I felt when I learned one leader took his kids to the amusement park. He told us never to go, but since I had the class with his kids, I couldn't help to hear them talk about going. Hypocrisy anyone?

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It just makes me sick looking back at how impulsively marriage was entered into. Immature elders promoting and hastening marriages without proper courtships, all expedited by WL's mandate of "no dating." Many of us were told specifically by elder L.C. in Columbus, "the church doesn't have time for weddings, just do something simple to satisfy your family."

Someone mentioned a while back, in the other forum, that Witness Lee actually wanted some kind of provision for courtship during the Full-Time Training. But that it was the other brothers around him that put the kibosh on that, insisting on a strict no-dating policy.

This really surprised me. I don't know of any support for the idea that the current no-dating policy in the training is not according to WL's desire. Any thoughts, anyone?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I never did hear LC leaders speaking of "love" in the context of marriage. Instead it was that morbid, "she can't live with me without Christ, and I can't live with her without Christ. She is my cross, and I am her cross. Because of her I gain more Christ, and because of me she gains more Christ." Sound more like a "cage" than a cross. Was that supposed to be "good news." Some leaders even gave those "spiritual" messages during wedding meetings. Imagine what the families thought. Old fashioned traditional marriages from "poor, poor Christianity" held more hope than that!

I remember a bother we all looked up to, who was a little older than us 18-22 year olds in Bezerkly. (He always reminded me a little of Charelton Heston as Moses . . .) He told us we all needed to get married to a big, ugly, battle axe of a wife who would just grind us to a pulp, and that's how we would really gain Christ. We all laughed, but he was serious. He wound up getting married to a pretty, sweet sister as I remember.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

In the interest of getting this a bit back on topic, does anyone else have some insight as to what I could do?

Just wondering if ToGodAlone is still reading and how things ended up for him?