An Outsider's Story

[ToGodAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother TGA,

You have not indicated where you are located, but one thing that may be in your favor is the events of the last 5 or 6 years in the Recovery. A couple of major splits occurred, with one being in the Great Lakes Area where I am. A regional leader in Cleveland, OH was "quarantined" by headquarters in Anaheim, CA.

The positive effect of the splits is that many open-minded saints were forced to reevaluate, or to even consider for the first time, many long held doctrines and practices. The Bible admonishes us to "test all things," and many things in the Recovery, that had been taken for granted, just could not "pass the test," and have since been discarded.

Not all in America, however, have taken these steps to reevaluate Recovery tenets according to the scripture. Many simply clung to the old party line emanating from the Living Stream Ministry. In some places the breakup was nasty indeed, with lawsuits over property and assets. All of these events just exposed the hypocrisy of LSM's "oneness" doctrines and practices.

Yes I have read of these splits a little before I posted here. I will say that although I am in the Great Lakes area, the churches that my girlfriend attends both on campus and at home are very much like the traditional ones. Still affiliated with LSM and all that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

Yes I have read of these splits a little before I posted here. I will say that although I am in the Great Lakes area, the churches that my girlfriend attends both on campus and at home are very much like the traditional ones. Still affiliated with LSM and all that.

That's still better than not.

It is my opinion that those in the Great Lakes Area, who sided with LSM, don't really know what LSM is really like. GLA is an "LSM-Lite," having been much influenced and somewhat moderated by TC over the years. Some of the horror stories I have read from other regions have surprised even me.

I was active in the Ohio area LC's from the mid-70's to the early-00's, so I know that most in the GLA have a polished image of LSM, which they received via trainings and videos. With few exceptions, most are unawares of the ultra-legalism of the Texas region and numerous "storms" which plagued the west coast. It is also my opinion that most of those in the GLA sided with LSM because they considered it a lesser evil than TC in Cleveland, a "grass is greener on the other side" type thing.

Remember these are just my personal generalizations, and individual experiences may vary. I also found that the church experience for Asians seemed to be more palatable than for folks like me.

[ToGodAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's still better than not.

It is my opinion that those in the Great Lakes Area, who sided with LSM, don't really know what LSM is really like. GLA is an "LSM-Lite," having been much influenced and somewhat moderated by TC over the years. Some of the horror stories I have read from other regions have surprised even me.

I was active in the Ohio area LC's from the mid-70's to the early-00's, so I know that most in the GLA have a polished image of LSM, which they received via trainings and videos. With few exceptions, most are unawares of the ultra-legalism of the Texas region and numerous "storms" which plagued the west coast. It is also my opinion that most of those in the GLA sided with LSM because they considered it a lesser evil than TC in Cleveland, a "grass is greener on the other side" type thing.

Remember these are just my personal generalizations, and individual experiences may vary. I also found that the church experience for Asians seemed to be more palatable than for folks like me.

Well then I guess I have much to be thankful for. Good to know.

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is also my opinion that most of those in the GLA sided with LSM because they considered it a lesser evil than TC in Cleveland, a "grass is greener on the other side" type thing.

Do you mean currently in the GLA there are more pro LSM than TC?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Do you mean currently in the GLA there are more pro LSM than TC?

Depends on what part of the GLA you are in.

Before the actual quarantine of TC in Oct. 2006, LSM leaders effectively wooed the Chicago leader Bill Barker into their camp. He had been bitterly scolded by TC in a workers' gathering, and was still smarting from that offense. His flip-flop in allegiance was pivotal, and allowed LSM to proceed with their "purging" without major losses.

In the Chicago area, only a few places like Naperville are still supportive of TC. Close to a dozen full-time workers and their families left the Chicago area for TC controlled areas closer to Cleveland. This resulted in a huge "brain-drain" for Chicago, but helped them much financially, since they just completed a major, and very costly expansion to their property.

In "greater Ohio," several nasty splits occurred. LSM controlled minorities were able to out-maneuver the TC sided majorities in Mansfield and Columbus with the help of LSM's legal team. The huge church in Toronto barely escaped LSM's clutches.

Not to overly complicate things, but there are also greater Ohio churches which have distanced themselves from both Anaheim and Cleveland, which is what I predicted all along. TC has long proposed the paradigm of "WL good, Blendeds bad" to all his supporters, and most have bought into that. It's an easy and convenient sell, but it does not match the facts. Once we begin to examine the many faults of the Blendeds, it is just a few baby steps further to realize that WL, TC, and the Blendeds are all pretty much the same.

[ToGodAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Depends on what part of the GLA you are in.

Before the actual quarantine of TC in Oct. 2006, LSM leaders effectively wooed the Chicago leader Bill Barker into their camp. He had been bitterly scolded by TC in a workers' gathering, and was still smarting from that offense. His flip-flop in allegiance was pivotal, and allowed LSM to proceed with their "purging" without major losses.

In the Chicago area, only a few places like Naperville are still supportive of TC. Close to a dozen full-time workers and their families left the Chicago area for TC controlled areas closer to Cleveland. This resulted in a huge "brain-drain" for Chicago, but helped them much financially, since they just completed a major, and very costly expansion to their property.

In "greater Ohio," several nasty splits occurred. LSM controlled minorities were able to out-maneuver the TC sided majorities in Mansfield and Columbus with the help of LSM's legal team. The huge church in Toronto barely escaped LSM's clutches.

Not to overly complicate things, but there are also greater Ohio churches which have distanced themselves from both Anaheim and Cleveland, which is what I predicted all along. TC has long proposed the paradigm of "WL good, Blendeds bad" to all his supporters, and most have bought into that. It's an easy and convenient sell, but it does not match the facts. Once we begin to examine the many faults of the Blendeds, it is just a few baby steps further to realize that WL, TC, and the Blendeds are all pretty much the same.

So this is the current state of the LRC is it? Chicago area is still pretty much under LSM "control" then? It's a darn shame. They say they fight for the Lord's Recovery, but they're no better than that which they separated from, and in a lot of cases are probably worse.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ToGodAlone

So this is the current state of the LRC is it? Chicago area is still pretty much under LSM "control" then? It's a darn shame. They say they fight for the Lord's Recovery, but they're no better than that which they separated from, and in a lot of cases are probably worse.

Here's one of life's great ironies. LSM leveraged the quarantine of TC using the policy of having only one publication in the Recovery. James Reetske Sr, another of Chicago's original leaders, and himself an author, said repeatedly in the leaders' meetings, that he was against the mandate for one publication, saying to the extent "Many Christians have died for the right to publish their books."

Yet, when push came to shove, ole JRsr forgot about the past martyrs, and his Christian liberties, and saluted the new bosses in Anaheim. He had no choice but to follow the lead of his more powerful, but less spiritual, co-elder Bill Barker. TC at the time tried his best to spin the Chicago flip-flop as strictly a "business decision," due to their enormous mortgage, close to $2M. Rumor has it that LSM helped them with their financial "burden" in exchange for their complicity in the purge of TC.

[ToGodAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's one of life's great ironies. LSM leveraged the quarantine of TC using the policy of having only one publication in the Recovery. James Reetske Sr, another of Chicago's original leaders, and himself an author, said repeatedly in the leaders' meetings, that he was against the mandate for one publication, saying to the extent "Many Christians have died for the right to publish their books."

Yet, when push came to shove, ole JRsr forgot about the past martyrs, and his Christian liberties, and saluted the new bosses in Anaheim. He had no choice but to follow the lead of his more powerful, but less spiritual, co-elder Bill Barker. TC at the time tried his best to spin the Chicago flip-flop as strictly a "business decision," due to their enormous mortgage, close to $2M. Rumor has it that LSM helped them with their financial "burden" in exchange for their complicity in the purge of TC.

So is Chicago pro LSM still?

Originally Posted by Ohio

TC at the time tried his best to spin the Chicago flip-flop as strictly a "business decision," due to their enormous mortgage, close to $2M. Rumor has it that LSM helped them with their financial "burden" in exchange for their complicity in the purge of TC.

So from what you're saying it seems like TC was already causing problems in Chicago and the money thing happened to be what pushed them over the edge into the LSM camp.

What is it like in Ohio now? Do the majority still follow TC or has that dwindled down?