The Apostolic Mob Of The Lord's Recovery - The Usurpation Of God's Throne

[TheStarswillFall]

I continue to believe that self-appointed (self-assumed) authority (office) was the root of the error of the Scribes and the Pharisees - and of all misguided religious organizations, including the Lord's Recovery.

Matt 23:8
“But do not be called Rabbi (Minister of the Age); for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Believers are called to discern true apostles from pretenders..."you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. (Rev 2:2)"

WHO ARE THE APOSTLES?
Are there living apostles today?
If we go back to the beginning, church history informs us that the early church fathers who continued in the New Testament ministry (after the initial apostles), did not regard themselves as apostles.
Why is that?
Because Scripture clearly teaches that an apostle was one commissioned by the resurrected Christ Himself (sent by Christ directly), and that all apostles had the gift to work miracles - as a seal (validation) to their apostolic function.

Witness Lee was not sent by Christ, he was the self appointed minister of the age...
"Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after themselves. (Acts 20:30)"

The Lord's Recovery will NEVER produce the Body of Christ, since the requirement for the Body to be produced is for EVERY saint to GROW UP INTO THE HEAD OF THE BODY - CHRIST HIMSELF, and NOT INTO Witness Lee's usurping ministry..."Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ Himself, Who is the Head. (Eph 4:15)"

As long as the teaching of and adherence to MINISTER OF THE AGE with the MINISTRY OF THE AGE continues, the Lord's Recovery will remain a divisive sect under the rule of self-appointed leaders who usurp Christ's Headship.

[PeterG]

TheStarswillFall, what you say is right for building up the single local body. But what about church history? After Christianity was fully degraded by Catholicism, didn't God initiate a recovery? Didn't it progress in stages and rediscover step by step lost spiritual truths? And did God not work with “ministers” of his work in these ages, beginning with Luther? Don't we all stand on their shoulders?

But I agree with you that Lee was not sent by the Lord, but by Watchman Nee - but only to Hong Kong.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by PeterG

TheStarswillFall, what you say is right for building up the single local body. But what about church history? After Christianity was fully degraded by Catholicism, didn't God initiate a recovery? Didn't it progress in stages and rediscover step by step lost spiritual truths? And did God not work with “ministers” of his work in these ages, beginning with Luther? Don't we all stand on their shoulders?

But I agree with you that Lee was not sent by the Lord, but by Watchman Nee - but only to Hong Kong.

What about church history? "Church history" is man-made, is it not? "Church History" is laced with the opinions and observation of man. However accurate or inaccurate some of these historic observations may happen to be, "Church History" is, and always be, the making of man with more "authority" bestowed upon it by men than maybe God himself would commit.

Did God initiate a "recovery"? Again, this is a man-made opinion. Did anything of the work of God ever need to be "recovered"? In God's mind, was anything he ever did "lost"? God and all his work is eternal, is it not? God's work never went anywhere.

These man-made matters today have reached the level of "gospel". In my opinion, these man-made opinions have indeed ushered in the beginnings, if not full-blow, condition of the church in Laodicea. Man-made "Church history" has superseded the voice of God in the church today.

Has God committed himself to this man-made "Church History"? Maybe it's time to put "church history" in its place as subservient to the voice of God, and put God in HIS place as the living, loving God of the universe.

Witness Lee trumpeted "degraded Christianity", but he failed to acknowledge that his own "church" was as degraded, if not worse, than his Christian brothers' organizations.

Nell

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by Nell

Did God initiate a "recovery"? Again, this is a man-made opinion. Did anything of the work of God ever need to be "recovered"?

Yes, of course things had to be recovered. Especially the gospel. Was what God did through Luther merely "man-made"??

[Nell]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Yes, of course things had to be recovered. Especially the gospel. Was what God did through Luther merely "man-made"??

It is called the “Protestant Reformation”. By definition, if God did it, it was not man made.

I see your point, but does anyone seriously believe Witness Lee “recovered” anything of the caliber of salvation through faith alone? Witness Lee’s “ministry” was so complicated, wordy and “Leeized” he was likely the only one who could comprehend it because he made it up through personal interpretation of scripture and called it “recovered.”

I’m saying that Church History has been defined by what men say it is rather than defined by God.

Nell

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by Nell

It is called the “Protestant Reformation”. By definition, if God did it, it was not man made.

I see your point, but does anyone seriously believe Witness Lee “recovered” anything of the caliber of salvation through faith alone? Witness Lee’s “ministry” was so complicated, wordy and “Leeized” he was likely the only one who could comprehend it because he made it up through personal interpretation of scripture and called it “recovered.”

I’m saying that Church History has been defined by what men say it is rather than defined by God.

Nell

Yes, church history is full of man-made nonsense. And I include the confused teachings of Witness Lee in this. But nevertheless, after salvation through faith alone, God also showed us baptism, holiness, spiritual gifts, and the universal priesthood anew. And in my opinion, he also showed us in the last century that he doesn't want denominations. Once they are abolished, we will be able to enjoy the New Testament conditions again. However, I am aware how much this contradicts evangelical thinking and that it may take a long time. But I am optimistic that the time will come when people will also view denominations as man-made nonsense, just as they once did with the sale of indulgences.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Yes, church history is full of man-made nonsense. And I include the confused teachings of Witness Lee in this. But nevertheless, after salvation through faith alone, God also showed us baptism, holiness, spiritual gifts, and the universal priesthood anew. And in my opinion, he also showed us in the last century that he doesn't want denominations. Once they are abolished, we will be able to enjoy the New Testament conditions again. However, I am aware how much this contradicts evangelical thinking and that it may take a long time. But I am optimistic that the time will come when people will also view denominations as man-made nonsense, just as they once did with the sale of indulgences.

You think denominations will someday be abolished? Where do these verses fit in?

Rev. 3: 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Nell