InconvenientRuth

[InconvenientRuth]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
For about 7 years, I have been struggling through (at times) intense disorientation and cognitive dissonance... trying to save a very precious marriage while being shunned by my husband who was fully functioning as an elder, church board member, FTTA trainer, and speaker at international conferences... while not even obeying the law related to his treatment of me. Through that experience, and my repeated unavailing attempts to appeal to my in-laws and then to other leading ones, I began to face the fact that the treatment I was experiencing was very culty.

Working through that paradigm shift has required that I read and study a lot, and get godly therapy and fellowship from MANY "outsiders" - but the most help has come from ones like you who have spoken about your experiences and healing.

I actually read quite a bit from this forum years ago, and it was helpful. I have been hesitant to join because I work online and don't love screentime. I am also averse to "us" versus "them" mentalities - a characteristic that drove me away from an environment that was steeped in senses of superiority and exclusivity... We are all truly one Body and members one of another...

But I have experienced and witnessed in Christ's Body what would in physical terms be called an autoimmune disease - the body attacking itself... and it has made all of us, I believe, sick. And an important part of healing is expressing the symptoms and getting the flow of life to the wounded areas. So I am opening in this forum for that.

I just posted a new video. I think it is still uploading. It addresses a very deep concern I have, based partly on fellowship with some of you, as well as my own experience and observations. The topic is hard to adequately address, but here is my feeble attempt: https://youtu.be/c4fSkv5y_3s.

Much love to each of you. May we be prepared as His bride, adorned with the righteousnesses of the saints.

Ruth Wise

[Recovering]

Welcome @InconvenientRuth! I'm encouraged to see you here and have been following your video series on YouTube. My heart has been breaking for the things you have had to endure. Thank you for exercising your courage to speak up. It should be evident to anyone who watches them with an ounce of openness that you are speaking truth in love, even though that truth is hard to hear (and surely it is hard to speak). We are praying for you and praying that your words would wake others up, either to have courage to make their own exit, or to repent and start to right the wrongs they have caused.

[InconvenientRuth]

Thank you, @Recovering. And I love your username; both transitive and intransitive... recovering personally and recovering others/truth... Thanks for your prayers. I just recorded a very sensitive video, that is currently uploading... https://youtu.be/MwM_3GHTKgg.

[GraceAlone]

We're glad you're here, Ruth! I so appreciate all the work you've been putting into your videos. That takes so much courage given the way the LC leadership habitually responds to anyone publicly speaking uncomfortable truths, even when done in loving and winsome ways. I'm sorry that your revelations have come at such a personal cost, though.

[InconvenientRuth]

Just posted this video… spoken with all my heart… https://youtu.be/fxKVwg733Mk?si=m-kap_SLxliQzzfW

[PeterG]

Dear Ruth,

You've already made a lot of videos, always with pretty similar content. I asked myself: what exactly needs to happen for her to find peace? Do you have the answer to that?

“Know who you are under.” Watchman Nee said this to very young, inexperienced co-workers. It doesn't mean, “You're under this person or that person:” It means, “KNOW who you're under.”

This can sometimes be quite difficult. Watchman Nee explains that it has to be people who know the will of God...

But one thing is for sure: you are “under” the endless love and sovereignty of our God. Isn't it so? I wish you to enjoy it today, tomorrow, with all your heart and whatever happens.

Originally Posted by PeterG

Dear Ruth,

You've already made a lot of videos, always with pretty similar content. I asked myself: what exactly needs to happen for her to find peace? Do you have the answer to that?

“Know who you are under.” Watchman Nee said this to very young, inexperienced co-workers. It doesn't mean, “You're under this person or that person:” It means, “KNOW who you're under.”

This can sometimes be quite difficult. Watchman Nee explains that it has to be people who know the will of God...

But one thing is for sure: you are “under” the endless love and sovereignty of our God. Isn't it so? I wish you to enjoy it today, tomorrow, with all your heart and whatever happens.

What needs to happen for Ruth and those like her is that they need to be heard by their brothers and sisters. She is still under great oppression from the enemy through the actions of the leading ones in The Lord’s Recovery. It is a present, ongoing experience, not just a past one. She has also realized that there are many like her who have suffered in the same way, and she feels burdened to speak up not only for herself but for them.

True, everlasting peace cannot be had until this situation is remedied and until the Lord returns. He can be our peace, in a sense, like Paul experienced, but we must not ignore the fact that in his humanity Paul more often than not was suffering and experienced great sorrow.The joy of the Lord shone through in his experiences, but those negative experiences were consistent and intense. So great was it that Paul declared that he would prefer to go with the Lord rather than stay on the earth and suffer. The only reason he endeavored in this life was for the sake of the next generation of saints.

Ruth is offloading 30 years of suffering that she has held inside of her soul. It’s going to be quite a process.

[PeterG]

Hi Unregistered Guest,

I am new to this forum myself. And what really impresses me is how the members have worked through their own stories of suffering with the same organization and have succeeded in finishing them. I'm sure that if Ruth wants to continue posting herself, she will benefit greatly.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What needs to happen for Ruth and those like her is that they need to be heard by their brothers and sisters. She is still under great oppression from the enemy through the actions of the leading ones in The Lord’s Recovery. It is a present, ongoing experience, not just a past one. She has also realized that there are many like her who have suffered in the same way, and she feels burdened to speak up not only for herself but for them.

True, everlasting peace cannot be had until this situation is remedied and until the Lord returns. He can be our peace, in a sense, like Paul experienced, but we must not ignore the fact that in his humanity Paul more often than not was suffering and experienced great sorrow.The joy of the Lord shone through in his experiences, but those negative experiences were consistent and intense. So great was it that Paul declared that he would prefer to go with the Lord rather than stay on the earth and suffer. The only reason he endeavored in this life was for the sake of the next generation of saints.

Ruth is offloading 30 years of suffering that she has held inside of her soul. It’s going to be quite a process.

What Ruth, and those like her need, is to hear and follow the voice of the Lord. We suffered for years listening to men tell us what to do, what to say, and who to say it to. The result was, in order to stay out of trouble, we had to learn how to follow the men “over us” instead of listening to the voice of our good shepherd.

Of course we need to be heard. But I/we learned early that in the Local Church leadership, no one is listening. Many have tried to “fellowship with the brothers”. The result is we are branded as “negative” and are forever shunned and talked about behind our backs. When we finally “left the church” we got criticized for that too.

As we all are, we are posting on this forum to speak for ourselves and not continue to be told what to do. Perhaps the greatest need of all believers is to hear His voice in our lives and follow Him.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Nell

Originally Posted by Nell

What Ruth, and those like her need, is to hear and follow the voice of the Lord. We suffered for years listening to men tell us what to do, what to say, and who to say it to. The result was, in order to stay out of trouble, we had to learn how to follow the men “over us” instead of listening to the voice of our good shepherd.

Of course we need to be heard. But I/we learned early that in the Local Church leadership, no one is listening. Many have tried to “fellowship with the brothers”. The result is we are branded as “negative” and are forever shunned and talked about behind our backs. When we finally “left the church” we got criticized for that too.

As we all are, we are posting on this forum to speak for ourselves and not continue to be told what to do. Perhaps the greatest need of all believers is to hear His voice in our lives and follow Him.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Nell

Thank you for supporting my point. For too long, sisters in the churches, particularly the Local Church, have been treated as second-class members. Rather than being treated as weaker vessels, they are treated as inferior vessels. This should not be so.

Surely we must follow the leading of the Lord, and surely the assemblies in The Lord’s Recovery need to learn to listen to and consider what these sisters have to say. I have known too many sisters who have been embittered by exactly what you have laid out here. This should not be so.

Until the assemblies ****** and begin treating their members more graciously, we cannot reasonably expect any modicum of peace to befall the brothers and sisters who have been mistreated, shunned, and shamed for sharing their experiences. Those who have been called to tend to God’s sheep must do as they’ve been commanded by the Lord. (***** edited by Nell)

John 21:15-17

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.”

[InconvenientRuth]

Hi! Finally reading a few posts tonight... I don't keep up with social media very well. But I appreciate this fellowship.

I am actually at peace inwardly. I treat a lot of videos like perhaps it may be the only one someone watches, so I mention some relevant context... but perhaps they are too repetitive.

I am doing my best to speak "truth to power" (an expression for courageously confronting an authority, calling out injustices on their watch, and demanding change - Dictionary.com) because there has been extensive abuse of power in what is called "THE church" but has not been a healthy place for the sheep. And if we don't speak the truth, many more may be stumbed. And even ONE stumbling is very serious. I have seen too many stumbled already.

[InconvenientRuth]

Yes, @Nell... I really reached out to relevant individuals, then relevant groups of individuals, to no avail, for several years. Eventually, we have to cry out for help somewhat indiscriminately, which I started to do in 2021... and have started doing again recently, after being threatened to take my book off Amazon and take my blog down, and having done so for a couple of years, with no increase in any care for me or my now-adult children who need fellow sheep, shepherding, and healing. It is, at times, a matter of life or death to not be/feel isolated amidst such wounding treatment in one's church family.

But I am so thankful that I am at peace and have joy.
I want any vestiges of evil to be exposed by the light!!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thank you for supporting my point. For too long, sisters in the churches, particularly the Local Church, have been treated as second-class members. Rather than being treated as weaker vessels, they are treated as inferior vessels. This should not be so.

Surely we must follow the leading of the Lord, and surely the assemblies in The Lord’s Recovery need to learn to listen to and consider what these sisters have to say. I have known too many sisters who have been embittered by exactly what you have laid out here. This should not be so.

Until the assemblies ******* and begin treating their members more graciously, we cannot reasonably expect any modicum of peace to befall the brothers and sisters who have been mistreated, shunned, and shamed for sharing their experiences. Those who have been called to tend to God’s sheep must do as they’ve been commanded by the Lord. (***** edited by Nell)

…

Unregistered,
All due respect, I neither support nor oppose your point, but reiterate my belief that we need to learn to hear the voice of God. Both men and women have been treated poorly by LC leadership and hearing the voice of God instead of bowing to the voices of men is a great indication of what has gone wrong in the LC.

Please refrain from using crude language in your post's. I ask this as a Forum Moderator.

To continue to post, please send a request for an account to reg4lcd@gmail.com along with your preferred user name.

Thanks,
Nell

[PeterG]

Nell,
like you have experienced the fallibility of authority, I have experienced the fallibility of mystical listening to “God’s Voice.” Very problematic if we are honest. Others said: Only the written word is spiritual reality. Hm... I was not far from giving up Christianity completely and the only thing I still could do, was praying: “Lord, save my faith!” Then I slowly began to understand that God prepared a “third way” for us. His not perfect but authentic ekklesia.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Nell,
like you have experienced the fallibility of authority, I have experienced the fallibility of mystical listening to “God’s Voice.” Very problematic if we are honest. Others said: Only the written word is spiritual reality. Hm... I was not far from giving up Christianity completely and the only thing I still could do, was praying: “Lord, save my faith!” Then I slowly began to understand that God prepared a “third way” for us. His not perfect but authentic ekklesia.

PeterG,
You don’t know me. It would be better if you would not presume to judge my experience with the Lord by your own standards or beliefs or experience. Additionally, please don’t judge my experiences as “problematic” just because yours were. Being honest.

I’m talking about hearing…not listening. Of course, in order to hear, you arguably need to listen. But I am taking about hearing God’s voice as a learning experience. We learn to hear his voice. Then we “test all things”. … all things we believe we hear from God. What we believe we hear from God may not pass the test. That’s why it’s a learning experience.

You “began to understand”? Does that mean you heard God’s voice, tested what you began to understand to be from him, and determined this “third way” was from Him?

You are certainly free to share your beliefs with us on the forum, but it seems that you are lecturing me and correcting me about one word (listening), when I was talking about another, vastly different, word: hearing.

Nell

BTW, who “authenticates” your “third way”? It should be noted that all church leaders believe their way to be “authentic”. We’ve been there before, now we’re not.

[PeterG]

Nell,
Watchman Nee taught that most things come from our soul. And I think he's right about that (even if I don't agree with his tripartite). It's our natural man that we hear most the time, right? (even when we’re posting) And therefore to filter out a genuine word of God in us, I find “problematic”. But I am open to what you have learned about a difference between “listening” and “hearing” and how you test.

So far I want my test criterion to be what helpes to build up the body - from a pure heart, simple, unbiased and with great belief. And for that I have to look into the Bible. Not on my experiences and not on my reaction to my experiences. Too much flesh...

[Nell]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Nell,
Watchman Nee taught that most things come from our soul. And I think he's right about that (even if I don't agree with his tripartite). It's our natural man that we hear most the time, right? (even when we’re posting) And therefore to filter out a genuine word of God in us, I find “problematic”. But I am open to what you have learned about a difference between “listening” and “hearing” and how you test.

So far I want my test criterion to be what helpes to build up the body - from a pure heart, simple, unbiased and with great belief. And for that I have to look into the Bible. Not on my experiences and not on my reaction to my experiences. Too much flesh...

Wow! Do I need a lawyer? Who are you?

I’ll just leave you with my favorite quote about communicating with people:
“The most important matter to communicate to a person is respect. In conversation with people, If you do not communicate respect, communication does not take place.” Please review the forum Mission Statement.

My experience with the Lord is mine. I don’t need to be fact checked.

Nell

[TheStarswillFall]

Dear sister Ruth,

Your videos have been a great help to me, and surely quite inconvenient for some others.

I believe Rev 2:15-16 is a prophetic word to those in the Recovery who teaches and holds to the teaching of "the Minister of the age with the ministry of the age."

Whether it is through you or someone else, the Lord will not stop making war with them until they repent.

I believe you realize your speaking is a warring against the unrighteousness of the Lord's Recovery.

Revelation 2:15-16
New American Standard Bible
15 So you too, have some who in the same way hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans (teaching of hierarchy in the church - aka Minister of the Age).
16 Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will wage war against them with the sword of My mouth.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

Revelation 2:15-16
New American Standard Bible
15 So you too, have some who in the same way hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans (teaching of hierarchy in the church - aka Minister of the Age).
16 Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will wage war against them with the sword of My mouth.

According to early church writings, the Nicolaitans were heretics because they taught that God's grace allowed for sexual immorality. Here's a quote from Iranaeus who was a second degree disciple of the apostle John through Polycarp.

Irenaeus (Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 26.3)

"The Nicolaitans are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols."

And quotes from other early church fathers:

Hippolytus (Refutation of All Heresies, Book 7, Chapter 24)
"There are, however, among the Gnostics diversities of opinion... But Nicolaus has been a cause of the wide-spread combination of these wicked men. They are plainly impious, and their practices are most impure."

Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, Book 3, Chapter 4)
"Those who are called Nicolaitans falsely ascribe to him [Nicolas, the deacon] a statement that 'to abuse the flesh' was a matter of indifference. But the truth is, they abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence."

So in a sense I think Witness Lee did practice the teachings of the Nicolaitans by not correcting his sons for their unrepentant sexual immorality including what we now know includes sexual abuse of minors. Because of Witness Lee's salvation theology, he may have believed that his sons were saved and hence he did not feel the need to correct them.

I believe Witness Lee and his sons were victims in a spiritual sense of their own heresy. This article explains why self professed Christians like Philip Lee who lived like the devil are not actually saved:
Is the Free Grace Position Really Free?

Thank you Ruth for your testimony and the courage to shed light on such darkness.

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by bearbear

....
So in a sense I think Witness Lee did practice the teachings of the Nicolaitans by not correcting his sons for their unrepentant sexual immorality including what we now know includes sexual abuse of minors. Because of Witness Lee's salvation theology, he may have believed that his sons were saved and hence he did not feel the need to correct them.
...
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

bearbear,

Would you say that Witness Lee's tolerance of the sins of his sons, extend to the current leaders of the Local Churches? Today's obvious tolerance of unrepentant sexual abuse of its membership (mostly women that we know about) current LC leaders have followed Lee into hell.

Todays LC leadership who are following Lee in his sin are indeed the "blind leaders of the blind." These men have already been judged for their deeds of darkness:

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

For more information see John Ingalls' Speaking the Truth in Love.

The Lee/LC rebuttal to John was documented in "Fermentation of the Present Rebellion."

Nell

[Nell]

From Don Rutledge, former elder in Dallas, "Hope" posted on the former Bereans Forum. Emphasis added by Nell

FIRST IMMORAL CASE
Regarding Ben McPhersons immorality, this is the report from a first hand witness:

Ray Graver was the first to know. He contacted Benson Phillips (deceased) who called for an urgent gathering at his home with Ray, Joe Davis of Houston, Don Looper of Austin and Don Rutledge of Dallas.

This occurred the morning after Ben was found out. All the brothers there were furious. Don Rutledge angrily declared that they had all been betrayed. All agreed that Ben should be publicly excommunicated and publicly rebuked that all may fear. All agreed that the Lord could not bless the church in Irving due to Ben’s sin.

Ben had confessed to Ray that this sin was not a one time thing but had been going on for some time including when he was in Arlington. Ben also admitted that he knew the Church in Arlington had lagged the other Dallas area churches in blessing due to his sin. At that time, none of these brothers would sympathize with any immorality and especially from an elder or co-worker.

While they were meeting, Witness Lee returned Bensons urgent message. After about a 30 minute conversation, Benson returned to the room where the brothers were waiting, still in a state of shock and outrage. Witness Lee urged them to consider Bens family and the harm to them if he was publicly exposed. He urged them not to publicly excommunicate him but simply ask him to move away. That is what Ray and Benson decided to do. The other three had big reservations but deferred to the Irving brothers to take care of the matter.

But then the lying started. Many people began to call wanting to know what happened to Ben. Since Witness Lee, Benson and Ray had decided to keep the real situation under wraps, what where these brothers to say. Looper and Rutledge would say that something must have happened in Irving and they did not know for sure – A LIE. Benson and Ray told various stories, Ben wanted to get away etc and not to worry since he was in fellowship.

Witness Lee urged Benson and Ray to spend time with Ben and seek to recover him, but they were too disgusted to seek to contact him.

Yes the worldly wisdom from Witness Lee and the unfaithfulness of the five brothers led to more tragedy. All five have an account to give at the judgment seat.

Hope

In Christ Jesus there is hope for us all.

_______________
Years later, Ben seduced the wife of another elder, divorced his own wife and she divorced her elder husband. They married each other.

Note that the 5 elders knew what should be done. Benson allowed Lee to overrule their belief. As a result, 1) the sin was propagated, and 2) Ben was never helped and the sin became much worse because the church was not warned.
Witness Lee's sin towards his sons had taken root in the Leadership.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Nell

....All the brothers there were furious. Don Rutledge angrily declared that they had all been betrayed. All agreed that Ben should be publicly excommunicated and publicly rebuked that all may fear. All agreed that the Lord could not bless the church in Irving due to Ben’s sin.
...

Yes the worldly wisdom from Witness Lee and the unfaithfulness of the five brothers led to more tragedy. All five have an account to give at the judgment seat.

...

These 5 "elders" KNEW what should be done, for the benefit of all, but were influenced by Witness Lee...at the expense of the Lord's blessing on the churches...at the leadership of Benson Phillips.

Are the Local Churches being blessed today? Is Witness Lee's "ministry" being blessed today?

Witness Lee's "ministry" includes sexual immorality by today's Leadership. Note that the Leadership is/was referred to the "Blended Brothers" ... blended with the sinful Witness Lee after Lee's death.

What may have one time been a blessing by the Lord on the Local Churches under Lee's "ministry" seems to have become a curse. This curse is visited on today's membership by the Leadership's long-standing "cover-up ministry" which became acceptable because Lee's "blessing" of this sin. Note that this was only what we knew about that became public. We don't know for sure when it started. Perhaps as far back as Watchman Nee as described by Lilly Hu's book.

God is neither blind nor stupid. He will not be mocked.

Nell

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Nell

bearbear,
Would you say that Witness Lee's tolerance of the sins of his sons, extend to the current leaders of the Local Churches? Today's obvious tolerance of unrepentant sexual abuse of its membership (mostly women that we know about) current LC leaders have followed Lee into hell.

If the reports by Lily Hsu about Watchman Nee are true, it raises an interesting question: did Witness Lee inherit this "curse" by insisting on carrying Nee’s mantle? If so, it seems plausible that the same principle could apply to the next generation of blended brothers who now idolize Lee and perpetuate his legacy.

From my observation, many in the LC still idolize Witness Lee and his teachings. This is why I’ve focused on exposing him-- to address the root of the issue. Perhaps even if leaders like Ron Kangas or Minoru were exposed, the movement would likely continue as long as Lee’s teachings remain the foundation.

Only the Lord truly knows, but if I were to guess, Witness Lee’s greatest failing even above what has been discussed here may have been elevating himself and his teachings to a position of idolatry, drawing disciples away from Christ onto himself.

Acts 20:29-30
"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them."

[Nell]

Originally Posted by bearbear

If the reports by Lily Hsu about Watchman Nee are true, it raises an interesting question: did Witness Lee inherit this "curse" by insisting on carrying Nee’s mantle? If so, it seems plausible that the same principle could apply to the next generation of blended brothers who now idolize Lee and perpetuate his legacy.

Curses don’t just “go away”….. do they? It’s not too much to think that the sins of Nee were visited on Lee. Lee apparently idolized Nee, then demanded that we idolize him. Idolatry is a great sin. “God commands us not to serve other gods because there are no other gods except the ones we make ourselves.”

…

Only the Lord truly knows, but if I were to guess, Witness Lee’s greatest failing even above what has been discussed here may have been elevating himself and his teachings to a position of idolization, drawing attention away from Christ onto himself.

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Your verses in Acts are spot on.

Nell

[Indiana]

I like this thread and the serious questions that need to be asked. Bro. Lee once spoke of a revival that would end the age and bring the Lord back. But the refusal to remove obvious road blocks are still there and more have arisen. There is no way for revival without a spirit of clearing the way for God to move.



http://www.Reviewingchurchhistory.co...onyofJesus.pdf

[PeterG]

"Brother Nee stressed two things: Christ as life to produce the church and the church as the Body of Christ to express Christ. But, sorry to say, it was not only the outsiders who did not know these things; even among Brother Nee’s co-workers, who were my contemporaries, very few have fully entered into the realization of these two matters. Not to mention the matter of the Body of Christ, they did not even see the matter of Christ as life to us."

The clearest and simplest is apparently the most difficult for us (our flesh): the local, undivided ekklesia representing Christ. No other entity can do that, even if they call themselves “local church” or whatever. If not embracing all the believers of our location, as God's Word shows us, we are de facto a sect.

"In 1934 a letter came to me from Watchman Nee saying…that the vision we had received from the Lord concerned Christ as our life to produce the church, not as an organization but as a Body, an organism, to express Christ. This, he said, is what we have seen, and this is what we should preach and teach."

Amen, this vision is still so convincing, can there be a better one? Unfortunately, WL made great mistakes in its implementation which need to be corrected. For God is true and does not reject his plan.

... sorry. I actually didn't want to say anything more about this. But I don't think Watchman Nee was wrong here.

[Truthinlove]

Ruth, my wife and I want to thank you very much for your videos of testimonials and your song. No one can write this without real experience.

Nell referenced John Ingall's book which is shockingly true. I encourage anyone to read it. Below is a link that abuse is still occurring in the local churches.

https://www.mylocalchurchexperience.com/our-experiences
Jo Casteel and Andrea McArdle

Los Angeles Times, Saturday, January 7, 1989, Leaders Son Excommunicated
Crisis Threatens Future of Little-Known Church (by Russel Chandler)

Here is something that we found on the internet (LA Times Archives). In his book John Ingalls did not mention by name who was excommunicated by the membership. John was a real hero! I believe he had integrity. The news investigator Russel Chandler did good journalism by asking the leadership and its members what happened. By that we have confirmation of what happened. DCP cannot erase everything, see the attached LA Times article.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Truthinlove

...Nell referenced John Ingall's book which is shockingly true. I encourage anyone to read it.

FYI: The digital version of John Ingalls' book, (4F) NEWSPAPER ARTICLES APPEAR January 1989, contains a link to the complete LA Times article.

Please share that online resource freely with others.

P.S.

[Truthinlove]

Hi PriestlyScribe,
I didn't know there was a third electronic edition. I look forward to reading it. Thank you very much.