I'm a student in the FTT - AMA

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Jay

I agree with you on the LC treating poor people without love. They treated me this way. I was looked at with disdain for not being an excelling brother, and some brothers have even used condescending language towards me. There was also a brother who came into our locality a few years ago and he got baptized with us and later on ran into some trouble and became homeless. He reached out to the leading brothers and was basically ignored. I was in the room with one of them when he called and asked for help and he was redirected to a different locality where a brother had maybe a room for him. Which was ok I guess, but then that brother got off the phone and said verbatim "we are not a salvation army." And he laughed about it. That has never sat right with me

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Verse 14 totally exhibits the local churches; faith without deeds.
Has it always been this way?
Not my experience. As a child when my parents would move to a new locality, there were families that gave us a place to sleep in their home.
Not many years later (Dec1982/Jan1983) as a 9th grader during winter break we were out of town spending winter break with relatives. The house we lived in burned to the ground. Sure those in our locality could have said "we are not a salvation army". That may epitomize the Recovery today, but 40 years ago it was a different culture. A brother moved out of his home so my parents and my siblings had a place to live. Different ones in our locality donated clothes, appliance, food items. There was faith with deeds.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Verse 14 totally exhibits the local churches; faith without deeds.
Has it always been this way?
Not my experience. As a child when my parents would move to a new locality, there were families that gave us a place to sleep in their home.
Not many years later (Dec1982/Jan1983) as a 9th grader during winter break we were out of town spending winter break with relatives. The house we lived in burned to the ground. Sure those in our locality could have said "we are not a salvation army". That may epitomize the Recovery today, but 40 years ago it was a different culture. A brother moved out of his home so my parents and my siblings had a place to live. Different ones in our locality donated clothes, appliance, food items. There was faith with deeds.

Yeah I knew another brother who was disabled and went to his locality for help because the government wouldn't help him financially. The local church that he went to turned him away and told him that he should keep trying to find help from the world. But he had already tried and told them he had been trying for years with no help. They essentially just gave him the run around. Which I don't think is in the least bit biblical. The brother needed real practical help and they just denied him. While at the same time they basically gaslit him saying they loved and supported him and cared about him, and claimed they would pray for him, yet they wouldn't help him in any practical way. I was really upset by that. I think that despite how much the local church's look down on modern Christianity, I bet you that the denominations would open their wallets and help a sick and needy brother. This happened about a year ago

Also during the time the brother was asking for help, the leading brothers he was communicating with were acting very squirrely when it came to text and email conversations. They always wanted to meet up with him and talk in person as opposed to over text and email. You could say some people communicate better that way, but to the brother it seemed more like they didn't want anything in writing that could be used against them later. He said it was really bizarre how much they tried to avoid putting any of their communication in writing

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jay

Yeah I knew another brother who was disabled and went to his locality for help because the government wouldn't help him financially. The local church that he went to turned him away and told him that he should keep trying to find help from the world. But he had already tried and told them he had been trying for years with no help. They essentially just gave him the run around. Which I don't think is in the least bit biblical. The brother needed real practical help and they just denied him. While at the same time they basically gaslit him saying they loved and supported him and cared about him, and claimed they would pray for him, yet they wouldn't help him in any practical way. I was really upset by that. I think that despite how much the local church's look down on modern Christianity, I bet you that the denominations would open their wallets and help a sick and needy brother. This happened about a year ago

Also during the time the brother was asking for help, the leading brothers he was communicating with were acting very squirrely when it came to text and email conversations. They always wanted to meet up with him and talk in person as opposed to over text and email. You could say some people communicate better that way, but to the brother it seemed more like they didn't want anything in writing that could be used against them later. He said it was really bizarre how much they tried to avoid putting any of their communication in writing

Every month it was demanded that our little LC send money to Headquarters in Cleveland and Anaheim. We had to support LSM/DCP for its almost unlimited litigation against Christians, yet for years on end we had not one penny for our “needy saints.” These were strictly mandated business decisions void of any love.

But Paul plainly told Timothy concerning God’s “economy” that “the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith.” (I Tim 1.5)

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Every month it was demanded that our little LC send money to Headquarters in Cleveland and Anaheim. We had to support LSM/DCP for its almost unlimited litigation against Christians, yet for years on end we had not one penny for our “needy saints.” These were strictly mandated business decisions void of any love.

But Paul plainly told Timothy concerning God’s “economy” that “the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith.” (I Tim 1.5)

That is what makes local churches more like ministry churches. Financial support is solely for a singular ministry and not plural ministries. If they did offer support to multiple ministries or even non-profit organizations they bear no entity affiliation with, I would not have much of an argument.
Having said all this, I don't recall if local churches actively invest in rental properties for their less fortunate members or even a fund to assist their members in need.
If it happened, I didn't see it. Rather more likely is the case as we see in James:
"If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"

[Jay]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

That is what makes local churches more like ministry churches. Financial support is solely for a singular ministry and not plural ministries. If they did offer support to multiple ministries or even non-profit organizations they bear no entity affiliation with, I would not have much of an argument.
Having said all this, I don't recall if local churches actively invest in rental properties for their less fortunate members or even a fund to assist their members in need.
If it happened, I didn't see it. Rather more likely is the case as we see in James:
"If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"

I know of one in Spokane, which is I think two houses directly behind the Spokane meeting hall. But when I was there they used those houses for hosting speaking brothers and like young people who would come to that locality to blend or possibly consider going full time in the area. And those young people would need to be shining examples and burning for God and consecrated before they could be housed there. At least that's what it seemed like, it could be it's just an extra home for anyone who is visiting, I don't know for sure. But I am fairly certain that they were not at all used for helping the needy saints

I am not sure at all what the actual church gives but as far as I know the decisions of the finances (from local member donations) is solely up to the leading brothers in whatever locality. Meaning it's a local decision what to do with the church's donated funds. But that's just what I've heard from one leading brother. Actually I heard the exact opposite from another older brother who said that the money donated is NOT up to the local administration. So I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning towards the former, the decision is up to the local administration on how to distribute the funds. But I'd also bet that the money they get from selling books and morning revivals etc. goes back to LSM

So ultimately who knows how much they give and to whom and in what way. I know saints who have received donations from other members. When that happens the member who is donating essentially just gives money to the finance dept of whatever local church he is attending and they add a note which says "please give this money to such and such person." Then the administration writes a check from their locality and gives that check to the member in need. I've only seen this happen, I have never seen the administration just give to a needy member from out of the local donations. So I have no idea if they do or do not. But from what I've heard and experienced they are not at all readily giving to members who ask for help

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jay

I am not sure at all what the actual church gives but as far as I know the decisions of the finances (from local member donations) is solely up to the leading brothers in whatever locality. Meaning it's a local decision what to do with the church's donated funds. But that's just what I've heard from one leading brother. Actually I heard the exact opposite from another older brother who said that the money donated is NOT up to the local administration. So I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning towards the former, the decision is up to the local administration on how to distribute the funds. But I'd also bet that the money they get from selling books and morning revivals etc. goes back to LSM

Jay, now you see the difficulty I faced as a church Treasurer. Repeatedly the official line of autonomy was proclaimed, but behind the scenes we were subservient to the “ministry,” which in our case was both Cleveland and Anaheim. In reality local elders were little more than franchise managers. They were also regularly scapegoated since HQ is “always right, even when they are wrong.”

After facing endless hypocrisy and blame, one day I reached my limit, and abruptly resigned. The Lord within helped me “grow a spine” and end my participation in this hypocrisy.