The Roman Road vs. Lee's "road"

[Nell]

The Roman Road to Salvation
During the time this forum has been “alive”, we have seen post after post of current and former Local Church of Witness Lee members. Many of these posts are testimonies by those who have fallen away and embraced “another gospel”. A recent example, Buddhism. Some of these “other gospels” have no name in particular, but are simply contrary to the truth of God’s words. Many of these false gospels were introduced by Lee’s ministry in a vacuum of truth.

How did this happen? Did this have anything to do with Witness Lee’s ministry proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, as many of us knew growing up, to be the “low gospel”? Could the falling away of some of today’s “Church Kids” be the result of Lee’s teaching of his own ministry as the “high gospel”.

Many of us experienced the saving grace of Jesus Christ before “touching the church”. Those who encountered the Local Church of Witness Lee, having never heard or accepted the truth of the gospel, such as children who were raised in the LC, church kids, have no foundation of truth. Without this foundation of truth, there is no way to have a personal relation with Jesus…or is there? We all experience his mercy.

I grew up in the Baptist denomination. I asked Jesus to come into my heart as a child. He did. This foundation led me to a ever growing personal relationship with Jesus over a lifetime. It also led me, after a few years under the influence of Lee-teaching, to understand that something was wrong with Witness Lee’s “gospel”. I wasn’t sure what it was for a few years, but because I had a personal relationship with Jesus, he was talking to me and helping me. As I trusted Him, talked to him, listened to him, I experienced light on Lee’s “ministry”. The truth in God’s word which I learned as a child saved me from the darkness of Lee’s “ministry” as perpetrated by the men who executed his “ministry” over the years.

This leads me to believe that the greatest heresy of Lee’s ministry is/was the abolition of the true gospel in favor of Lee's "high gospel", thus introducing "another gospel.".

What was Lee’s "high gospel"? One version included "Calling on the Lord". Of course, there are verses about calling on the Lord. For example, Acts. 2: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Compare Acts 2:21 with the verses I grew up with called the “Roman Road” to salvation. It appears that while calling on the Lord may be sufficient to be saved, it seems that there’s more. Later on in Acts 2 we have verse 38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Clearly, there's likely more to eternal salvation than simply “calling”. Next up "The Roman Road".

Nell

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Nell

This leads me to believe that the greatest heresy of Lee’s ministry is/was the abolition of the true gospel in favor of Lee's "high gospel", thus introducing "another gospel.".


Nell

I was wondering if the way LC's Gospel and baptism truly save.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

I was wondering if the way LC's Gospel and baptism truly save.

There's no way for us say for sure, but you're asking the same question I'm asking. One test we are told about in the word is that people are known by their fruit. Considering Buddhism is bad fruit for someone who "grew up" or was saved in the Local Church under Witness Lee's ministry.

Many of you may remember the name Max Rapoport (deceased). Before encountering Witness Lee, Max was an evangelist. He told the story, after his exit from Lee's good graces, that on an early visit to Taiwan (I think) he somehow met with the Church in Taiwan. As he was interacting with the membership, he somehow came to the surprising conclusion which caused him to remark "these people aren't even saved."

So today, we are looking at the fruit of "calling on the Lord". Specifically, the fruit of eternal salvation and a life altering encounter with Jesus Christ who saves eternally and initiates a walk with him resulting in spiritual growth and truth. That is, growth in the life of God himself...not Buddism or any other unholy spirit.

Nell

[Nell]

As stated before, many of those who have posted here have described a relationship with God which is without peace. Many blame God and turn from him as though the problem/problems in their lives are his fault. Many begin a search for peace.

These verses in Romans leave no doubt about the problem and the path to salvation:
Romans 3:23:For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23:For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:8: But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9-10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 5:1:Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

We receive eternal life as a free gift!
Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God demonstrated his love for us, His enemies.
Romans 5:8: But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
We must trust and surrender to Jesus as Lord.
Romans 10:9-10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
A Sinner’s Prayer for Forgiveness
“Dear God, I know I’m a sinner. I know my sin deserves to be punished. I believe Christ is the Son of God who died for me and rose from the grave. I want to turn from my sin and trust Jesus Christ alone as my Savior. Thank you for your forgiveness and everlasting life. I can now have faith in Jesus.
In Jesus’ name , Amen”
Relationship of Peace with God.
Romans 5:1: “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

• 1. Admit you are a sinner.
• 2. Understand that, as a sinner, you deserve death.
• 3. Believe that your Savior, Jesus Christ, died on the cross to redeem you from sin and death.
• 4. Repent by turning from your sinful life to a new life in Christ.
• 5. Receive through faith in Jesus Christ, His gift of salvation.

Many who call "Oh Lord Jesus" incessantly still have no peace.

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

I was wondering if the way LC's Gospel and baptism truly save.

WL famously said something like "just call 'O Lord Jesus 3 times and you will be saved.'" This triggered all of his detractors, starting with Walter Martin, the "Bible Answer Man" of old.

We all would protest that comment, but of course it was taken out of context. Even so, anything formulaic or mechanical when it come to faith and salvation is problematic. To be honest, there is really no formula for salvation.

This is why there are so many Tares (Parable Matthew 13.24-30) Tares look and act like Christians, almost indistinguishable from the naked eye. Obviously Tares think they are saved, like those sitting next to them at church.

I think the biggest tragedy in the LC was what they did to the 2nd and 3rd generations. Endless programs, ways and means emanating from LSM programmed members into dead traditions and legalism like the Jewish religion when Jesus was on earth.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Nell

Max Rapoport . . . on an early visit to Taiwan . . . he somehow came to the surprising conclusion which caused him to remark "these people aren't even saved."

If true, this is quite a surprising statement. (I am not challenging its veracity.)

If only we could understand what it was that caused this declaration. Words used? Observation of the lives of the people? Teaching incompatible with a typical evangelical understanding of the initiation of salvation? Or incompatible with scripture?

[OBW]

Difficult topic to do much with. The fact of some who leave the faith in some way or another is hardly unique to the LC. It even happens among those whose salvation was predicated upon a typical Roman road prayer.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Surely this does not mean to believe that he was a person who lived at a point in the past. That is a problem everywhere. Show how they do not lead the people toward an understanding and belief of Jesus as God and man, crucified, buried, resurrected, and ascended and I will be satisfied.

I am more inclined to think that it is not a failure in basic doctrine, but in such immoral and duplicitous actions of the upper echelons of leadership turning people away. And if their faith was too strongly tied to the uniqueness of the teachings of the LC, and they too strongly believed that everything else was truly worse, then a failure of the LC was a failure of the Christian faith.

Woe to any who cause the little ones to stumble!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

...
I think the biggest tragedy in the LC was what they did to the 2nd and 3rd generations. Endless programs, ways and means emanating from LSM programmed members into dead traditions and legalism like the Jewish religion when Jesus was on earth.

Agree. The 2nd and 3rd generations have, by their own words on this forum, suffered the consequences of Lee's "programs, ways and means" and dead traditions and legalism. I've had the thought before that Witness Lee was, at heart, a "methodist".

Salvation from sins is foundational of the Christian faith as we are told by an angel of the Lord in Matthew. "Calling on the Lord" while virtually ignoring our need of being saved from sins is without balance.

The verses in Romans give us details of what was announced to Joseph in a dream.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus:for he shall save his people from their sins.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So this brief note is for anyone who may rely on "calling on the Lord" for a walk with the Lord: there are more verses in the Bible than Acts 2:21. Consider the verses in Romans.

Nell