Audio recording to FTTA alum meeting re: Jo Casteel

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmv77z2ht...02019.mp3?dl=0

Sent out today to some FTTA graduates:

During the recent July semiannual training in Anaheim there was a special time of fellowship with around 900 former FTTA trainees in response to some recent negative writing online. During this gathering, brothers Minoru Chen, Chris Wilde, James Lee, and Albert Lim shared their testimonies and their heart for the next generation of the Lord's recovery. Afterwards, a group of graduates of FTTA testified of their encouraging experience in the church life, their appreciation of the Word and the ministry which opens up the Word, and of their one accord with the older generation.

In these days, the Lord is moving to close this age. As the army typified in Numbers is being raised up, the enemy would try and drive a wedge between the generations of the Lord's recovery. This blended speaking, given in an atmosphere of love and tenderness, was a testimony of the oneness among us and our stand against the enemy's divisive work. Rather than be distracted by the enemy's tactics, may we have the heart of those with Nehemiah to "rise up and build, and strengthen our hands for the good work" of the building of God's house (Neh. 2:18). May the Lord richly bless His recovery through this speaking!

The audio recording of this meeting is now posted on www.livingtohim.com. You can also directly access it here. As a point of clarification, the tremors of a distant earthquake were felt during the previous evening's message and were referenced in some of the brothers' sharing. Also, we strongly encourage the saints not to search out the referenced online negative writing out of curiosity.

[Adelphos]

Originally Posted by FTTA graduate

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmv77z2ht...02019.mp3?dl=0

Sent out today to some FTTA graduates:

During the recent July semiannual training in Anaheim there was a special time of fellowship with around 900 former FTTA trainees in response to some recent negative writing online. During this gathering, brothers Minoru Chen, Chris Wilde, James Lee, and Albert Lim shared their testimonies and their heart for the next generation of the Lord's recovery. Afterwards, a group of graduates of FTTA testified of their encouraging experience in the church life, their appreciation of the Word and the ministry which opens up the Word, and of their one accord with the older generation.

In these days, the Lord is moving to close this age. As the army typified in Numbers is being raised up, the enemy would try and drive a wedge between the generations of the Lord's recovery. This blended speaking, given in an atmosphere of love and tenderness, was a testimony of the oneness among us and our stand against the enemy's divisive work. Rather than be distracted by the enemy's tactics, may we have the heart of those with Nehemiah to "rise up and build, and strengthen our hands for the good work" of the building of God's house (Neh. 2:18). May the Lord richly bless His recovery through this speaking!

The audio recording of this meeting is now posted on www.livingtohim.com. You can also directly access it here. As a point of clarification, the tremors of a distant earthquake were felt during the previous evening's message and were referenced in some of the brothers' sharing. Also, we strongly encourage the saints not to search out the referenced online negative writing out of curiosity.

Just a few question for you LC members...

When people are hungry, thirsty,
a stranger, needing clothes, sick and in prison does the LC you attend meet those needs in thier communities? Does LSM with its abundant resources do so or direct the Local Churches to do so? Is this practiced by your group or do they just meet, pass out books at colleges, attend conferences and urge people to attend FTT? Pretty vital because we can read plainly in Matt 25:41 there is eternal fire, the devil, his angels and not doing so are the characteristics of goats put on the left side in preceding passages of Matthew.

Psalm 23:3 God makes me walk in paths of righteousness for HIS namesake.
Psalm 25:11 we see iniquity pardoned for HIS namesake.
Psalm 31:3 For HIS namesake am I lead and guided.

Is there another name that keeps popping up at your meetings other than God's name?

Isaiah 42:8.....I AM THE LORD, that is My Name. My glory I give to NO OTHER.

Forget curiosity, are red flags streaming by your conscience? Do the LSM explanations hold water?
It took me some months but I saw red flags and to me the explanations did not hold up against scripture. Could God be calling you out also?

Hi FTTA graduate
Audio @ 06:30
"The recovery with MILLIONS of saints and THOUSANDS of churches on the earth".

???
What is the speaker referring to? 'The recovery' is what?

The recovery according to "God's economy" has millions of saints and thousands of churches?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by FTTA graduate

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmv77z2ht...02019.mp3?dl=0

Sent out today to some FTTA graduates:....

Not trying to stir up anymore controversy but did anyone else catch all that "father" talk in this recording?

In one sentence one of the speakers rejects the Pope comparisons on Jo's Facebook post, yet further on they repeatedly portray themselves (those in leadership) as "fathers" to the students.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the Catholics that insist on their priests being called "father". I'm surprised you didn't catch that one Ohio.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by FTTA graduate

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmv77z2ht...02019.mp3?dl=0

Also, we strongly encourage the saints not to search out the referenced online negative writing out of curiosity.

Hmm... Communist leaders do not want their people to listen to Voice of America They don't want people to read the bible. Why? The TRUTH sets the captive prisoners free.

If we are truly walking with the Lord, His Holy Spirit cautions us and even yanks us away from danger. On more than one occasion The LORD has nudged me 'not to go there'. And on a few occasions has even pulled me out of a dangerous situation.

While God does raise teachers, our true TEACHER is the Holy Spirit Who opens our eyes to understand God's Beloved WORD, which is living and operating in us.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Not trying to stir up anymore controversy but did anyone else catch all that "father" talk in this recording?

In one sentence one of the speakers rejects the Pope comparisons on Jo's Facebook post, yet further on they repeatedly portray themselves (those in leadership) as "fathers" to the students.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the Catholics that insist on their priests being called "father". I'm surprised you didn't catch that one Ohio.

Huh? Who do you think made the Pope comparisons?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Huh? Who do you think made the Pope comparisons?

And to his credit I think Ohio was the one who pointed out that TC went on record calling WL his "spiritual Father" and that they all "owed him their lives" and so forth.

And the comparisons with the RCC are apt. Just as the RCC based its standing on self-serving, non-biblical legends, so did/does the LC. In the RCC, supposedly Peter was the first Pope and Rome the de facto Jerusalem. Nowhere in the Bible is either suggested. But "Church tradition" supported this.

And in the LC, even though Peter and James in Jerusalem never were "under" Paul, since the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 that (in LC lore) was "God's judgment" on them, and that Paul was "really the MOTA all along". Oh, really? How convenient. Something like this should have scriptural support, not merely your fantasies imposed on Church history.

And I haven't heard the audio but evidently Minoru Chen gets all choked up, repeating how much they "love" the young ex-FTTA'ers. Maybe since they see their millions, even tens of millions of dollars in recruiting costs going up in smoke before them, this is causing tears to come to their eyes? Because there surely isn't any "natural affection" there.

I think that it's worth considering: here's a group spending huge sums, untold millions of dollars, to create a "pipeline" to suck young people in, and a now-young-adults a former church-kid and ex-FTTA'er, gets miserable and wants to know what's going on, and looks up the history of the group, and then sends out an open letter to the saints with her findings, the whole thing can be destroyed? This constitutes a 'rebellion'? A 38 year-old Registered Dietitian mom? I mean, this isn't Dallas Theological Seminary putting out a broadside. This is one former church kid who can't take it any more, and publicly wants out.

And that's enough to threaten your Lord's recovery? Methinks you've been building with wood, hay, and stubble all along. It's now becoming evident, and thus the emotional outpouring.

[UntoHim]

Not surprising, Minoru, after admitting there are "abuses and immorality" (without admitting much of the abuse was perpetrated by leading brothers against young sisters) went with the ole "nobody's perfect" blast. So he gets points for FINALLY admitting that there are abuses and immorality (of course, he had no choice) but he negated any good faith and credibility by going with the tried and true Witness Lee "nobody's perfect" slap in the face. I guess since the blended brothers consider themselves as "brother Lee's continuation" we shouldn't expect anything else from Minoru, now should we?

The second brother who speaks makes a big issue about the need "for covering but not to cover up". (Local Church double-talk at it's finest!) He then goes on to say that there will be action taken against those who "endanger children, saints, anyone". Then he says "they will bring the full force of the law" (paraphrase)
Could someone please identify this brother?
-

[HERn]

Originally Posted by aron

And to his credit I think Ohio was the one who pointed out that TC went on record calling WL his "spiritual Father" and that they all "owed him their lives" and so forth.

And the comparisons with the RCC are apt. Just as the RCC based its standing on self-serving, non-biblical legends, so did/does the LC. In the RCC, supposedly Peter was the first Pope and Rome the de facto Jerusalem. Nowhere in the Bible is either suggested. But "Church tradition" supported this.

And in the LC, even though Peter and James in Jerusalem never were "under" Paul, since the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 that (in LC lore) was "God's judgment" on them, and that Paul was "really the MOTA all along". Oh, really? How convenient. Something like this should have scriptural support, not merely your fantasies imposed on Church history.

And I haven't heard the audio but evidently Minoru Chen gets all choked up, repeating how much they "love" the young ex-FTTA'ers. Maybe since they see their millions, even tens of millions of dollars in recruiting costs going up in smoke before them, this is causing tears to come to their eyes? Because there surely isn't any "natural affection" there.

I think that it's worth considering: here's a group spending huge sums, untold millions of dollars, to create a "pipeline" to suck young people in, and a now-young-adults a former church-kid and ex-FTTA'er, gets miserable and wants to know what's going on, and looks up the history of the group, and then sends out an open letter to the saints with her findings, the whole thing can be destroyed? This constitutes a 'rebellion'? A 38 year-old Registered Dietitian mom? I mean, this isn't Dallas Theological Seminary putting out a broadside. This is one former church kid who can't take it any more, and publicly wants out.

And that's enough to threaten your Lord's recovery? Methinks you've been building with wood, hay, and stubble all along. It's now becoming evident, and thus the emotional outpouring.

Yertle the turtle was king of all he could see, and stacked them to heaven as high as could be, until a young turtle named Mack had enough and said my shell is going to crack. So, he let out a small burp and Yertle the king came falling back, and all the turtles were free, as I suppose all God's creatures should be. My apologies to dear Dr. Suess.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

The second brother who speaks makes a big issue about the need "for covering but not to cover up". (Local Church double-talk at it's finest!) He then goes on to say that there will be action taken against those who "endanger children, saints, anyone". Then he says "they will bring the full force of the law" (paraphrase)
Could someone please identify this brother?
-

Chris Wilde.

In order it's Minoru Chen, Chris Wilde, James Lee, and Albert Lim.

I guess even the LCs will change their tune about "not caring for right and wrong" when they realize that the local and federal authorities they are subject to care about right and wrong and can prosecute them according to the law......

Even regarding "covering" the NT is not about covering. It is about what is in the dark coming to light, it is about telling it to the church, it is about publicly not associating with people who won't repent. The NT writers' letters spoke openly about the sins and failings of the churches ....... where is even the principle of "covering"?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by aron

I think that it's worth considering: here's a group spending huge sums, untold millions of dollars, to create a "pipeline" to suck young people in, and a now-young-adults a former church-kid and ex-FTTA'er, gets miserable and wants to know what's going on, and looks up the history of the group, and then sends out an open letter to the saints with her findings, the whole thing can be destroyed? This constitutes a 'rebellion'? A 38 year-old Registered Dietitian mom? I mean, this isn't Dallas Theological Seminary putting out a broadside. This is one former church kid who can't take it any more, and publicly wants out.

And that's enough to threaten your Lord's recovery? Methinks you've been building with wood, hay, and stubble all along. It's now becoming evident, and thus the emotional outpouring.

Minoru and James use phrases like "this little rebellion" or "minor rebellion" or "little tremor" to try to downplay the situation.....but Minoru betrays things by saying the co-workers have been "on it almost day and night for weeks". The whole thing has classic doublespeak scattered throughout.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Minoru and James use phrases like "this little rebellion" or "minor rebellion" or "little tremor" to try to downplay the situation.....but Minoru betrays things by saying the co-workers have been "on it almost day and night for weeks". The whole thing has classic doublespeak scattered throughout.

Minoru should have gotten with Ron beforehand to get their stories straight. Because Ron wasn't speaking like that in message 5. Too bad both recordings are publicly available for comparison.

Originally Posted by Ron K

although Satan rebelled against God's authority and although man violates his authority by rebelling against Him, God will not let this rebellion continue when I just read it, I read it in principle now I will read it again, addressing the rebellion taking place right now. God will not let this rebellion continue. a deputy authority we will see does not deal directly with rebellion. We'll see the cases and numbers. Moses did not wield his authority and smashed those who revile him, rather he and Aaron fell on their face before the Lord. They deferred everything to God and we will take the same way and we will see not just at the end of this age not just in the Millennial Kingdom we will see it, I believe, in the near future we will see and we will learn that God will not let this rebellion continue.

I think we should just keep repeating it: the Great Rebellion of 2019 is one 38 year-old former FTTA ex-church-kid mother of 2 Registered Dietitian who's taken a course in ethics, posting an open letter on Facebook and some people hitting "like" and commenting. And that's it.

If that's all it takes to shake your house, what kind of house do you live in?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Huh? Who do you think made the Pope comparisons?

I assumed this was the comparison of the position of MOTA to the Pope. In the audio recording, however, they were conditioning the students to view the entire clergy as "fathers". It was extremely bizarre.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Not surprising, Minoru, after admitting there are "abuses and immorality" (without admitting much of the abuse was perpetrated by leading brothers against young sisters) went with the ole "nobody's perfect" blast. So he gets points for FINALLY admitting that there are abuses and immorality (of course, he had no choice) but he negated any good faith and credibility by going with the tried and true Witness Lee "nobody's perfect" slap in the face. I guess since the blended brothers consider themselves as "brother Lee's continuation" we shouldn't expect anything else from Minoru, now should we?

The second brother who speaks makes a big issue about the need "for covering but not to cover up". (Local Church double-talk at it's finest!) He then goes on to say that there will be action taken against those who "endanger children, saints, anyone". Then he says "they will bring the full force of the law" (paraphrase)
Could someone please identify this brother?
-

"Nobody's Perfect" is antithetical to any MOTA claims. In fact, it should be a caution to hooking up to any such leaders.

But seems we all know that nobody is perfect, but still can fall into the trap of believing that someone, whoever they are following, is perfect. This seems to be as common as nobody is perfect. Must be some hard-wiring going on in human nature.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Not trying to stir up anymore controversy but did anyone else catch all that "father" talk in this recording?

I heard about it on facebook. Much less than "father", I could not even regard the brothers as shepherds.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Chris Wilde.

In order it's Minoru Chen, Chris Wilde, James Lee, and Albert Lim.

I guess even the LCs will change their tune about "not caring for right and wrong" when they realize that the local and federal authorities they are subject to care about right and wrong and can prosecute them according to the law......

Even regarding "covering" the NT is not about covering. It is about what is in the dark coming to light, it is about telling it to the church, it is about publicly not associating with people who won't repent. The NT writers' letters spoke openly about the sins and failings of the churches ....... where is even the principle of "covering"?

Since when did LSM get the authorities involved outside of a lawsuit? Until practices start changing it's nothing but talking points.
Talk about covering, for example Nathan sure didn't cover King David in the Old Testament. It's in the Bible for everyone to read.

[aron]

Open response to FTTA alum meeting, and Chris Wilde's speaking, regarding events and issues in the Church in Houston

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ExNJ39Coe6Ir_g

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Open response to FTTA alum meeting, and Chris Wilde's speaking, regarding events and issues in the Church in Houston

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ExNJ39Coe6Ir_g

Like leader like followers .... cover up cover up cover up.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by aron

Minoru should have gotten with Ron beforehand to get their stories straight. Because Ron wasn't speaking like that in message 5. Too bad both recordings are publicly available for comparison.

I think we should just keep repeating it: the Great Rebellion of 2019 is one 38 year-old former FTTA ex-church-kid mother of 2 Registered Dietitian who's taken a course in ethics, posting an open letter on Facebook and some people hitting "like" and commenting. And that's it.

If that's all it takes to shake your house, what kind of house do you live in?

Yes aron it's a "house" alright - of cards (smoke & mirrors) a house of horrors! As long as members believe what the leaders say, they will remain trapped. Even if they are able to physically "leave" the group yet still believe that the leaders might be somewhat right - those folks can remain trapped in limbo and become susceptible to a mental breakdown and to spiritual attack thanks to the Blendeds' often repeated word curses...


Here is something I am working on to help expose this un-holy house of horrors: www.blendedbody.com/gregcasteel/index.html (preliminary version)


Keep checking back because this has a lot more work to be done...


P.S.

[Sons to Glory!]

FYI: I have not been able to get the link in the first post to work (shows Dropbox error). Also, the link from this last post (#19) from PriestlyScribe is flagged by my Norton as dangerous.

[HERn]

Can anyone direct me to Jo's current postings? I know she went to Facebook from here. Is she posting on Instagram?


Many thanks.



Hern

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by HERn

Can anyone direct me to Jo's current postings? I know she went to Facebook from here. Is she posting on Instagram?

Many thanks.

Hern

As far as I am aware, she moved to Instagram, however, my understanding is that her Instagram posts are not of the same nature as her FB letter (i.e. exposing the LC), but are more regarding her personal human life in the aftermath of the grievous experiences she endured.

After being in a cult. Can't everyone just go on with their lives. There's much more to this than complaining. If I was her and I knew what I recieved wasn't truth I would have just left no? Why be a sjw about everything. Honestly just leave quietly and go on with your life.

[UntoHim]

You know I think you're right Unregistered Guest. When one "sees the light" and leaves a religious movement or sect, they should leave, be quiet and get on with their lives....you know....just like Mr. Witness Lee did when he left poor poor Christianity!

Brother Lee was a shinning example of someone who knew there was much more to this than complaining. What's the use of looking back and calling the brothers and sisters you left christless, demonic, lost stars wandering around, moo cows who can't hear the heavenly music, daughters of the Great Whore, and destroyers of the divine building!

Honestly just leave quietly and go on with your life just like Lǐ Chángshòu!
-

Originally Posted by Unregistered

After being in a cult. Can't everyone just go on with their lives. There's much more to this than complaining. If I was her and I knew what I recieved wasn't truth I would have just left no? Why be a sjw about everything. Honestly just leave quietly and go on with your life.

No, no we can’t. Because we spent a huge part Of our lives (for church kids, their entire formative years) being spiritually abused. Would you tell someone who was abused in any other form to just get over it? Why is spiritual abuse any different? We were very much denied a normal adolescence, the ability to develop a healthy sense of self at the most critical time of our lives. That is just two small examples. Many of us have to have to see a therapist for PTSD like symptoms because of how we were spiritually abused in the LR. So much of what we experienced in the LR as children is still effecting our ability to function as an adult in normal every day life. We were taken advantage of to stroke certain people’s spiritual ego and maintain their sense of power and control. We have every right to do whatever it takes to work through the sense of loss/grief that comes from awakening to what is really going on. If that means “complaining” then so be it. Feel free to not listen to said complaining and get on with your own life.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered NZexCK

No, no we can’t. Because we spent a huge part Of our lives (for church kids, their entire formative years) being spiritually abused. Would you tell someone who was abused in any other form to just get over it? Why is spiritual abuse any different? We were very much denied a normal adolescence, the ability to develop a healthy sense of self at the most critical time of our lives. That is just two small examples. Many of us have to have to see a therapist for PTSD like symptoms because of how we were spiritually abused in the LR. So much of what we experienced in the LR as children is still effecting our ability to function as an adult in normal every day life. We were taken advantage of to stroke certain people’s spiritual ego and maintain their sense of power and control. We have every right to do whatever it takes to work through the sense of loss/grief that comes from awakening to what is really going on. If that means “complaining” then so be it. Feel free to not listen to said complaining and get on with your own life.

Nailed it, Unregistered NZexCK.

Originally Posted by FTTA graduate

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdmv77z2ht...02019.mp3?dl=0

Also, we strongly encourage the saints not to search out the referenced online negative writing out of curiosity.

Why? Because we are stupid, God is not protecting His chosen oneness outside of LR? Because we can learn the truth or other side of coin? Or because it is easier to manipulate brain washed saints? I do know language of religious people and real honest brothers and sisters.

I'm still in the church as I have been a church kid for many years. We are in the middle of the winter training and guess what they still haven't forgot about Jo.

James Lee was sharing about Amalek, about the self and flesh. During the message he said in the last rebellion, two years ago some one was possessed and energized by a demon to write and speak so well and aggressive in attacking.

Hope all is well and happy holidays my brothers and sisters.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm still in the church as I have been a church kid for many years. We are in the middle of the winter training and guess what they still haven't forgot about Jo.

James Lee was sharing about Amalek, about the self and flesh. During the message he said in the last rebellion, two years ago some one was possessed and energized by a demon to write and speak so well and aggressive in attacking.

Hope all is well and happy holidays my brothers and sisters.

Welcome unregistered church kid still in the church, (fellow church kid),

Thanks for this interesting update. Curious how you found this site, and what you think about your experience growing up in the local church.

It's fascinating that they think one facebook post is an "aggressive attack". I watched the responses to the post as they unfolded, and too many other church kids and saints resonated with what she had written for it to be considered an attack, but rather, a concerning consolidation of the truth.

I never understood the co-workers' viewpoint on this, in light of what the Bible says.

(I hope it is not insensitive to talk about this....if the feeling here is that it is, please delete this post. The co-workers are making public claims about something that is one of the most painful things anyone can endure, and I think it's important to talk about it so they don't have the monopoly on their version of the story.)

If Jo Casteel was possessed and energized by a demon, then the other reports that Greg was possessed too and was thus driven to commit suicide make no sense. This is would be a situation of a house divided. If their driving force was demon-possession, the demon would be thwarting its own work by causing Greg to end his life......thus stopping its own attack in its tracks. This is nonsense.

The other "explanation" I have seen from the local church is that Jo was possessed and God stepped in to stop her actions by taking Greg's life, because the "sin of rebellion" is, as Ron Kangas so eloquently put it two years ago, "THE SIN".

Except, the Bible doesn't say it's THE SIN. The Biblical record is actually of God having extreme patience year after year and century after century of His people in rebellion against Him. I mean, you have legitimate concerns about the safety of saints in the church and God gives you just a couple months before He kills you because of it? Doesn't sound like the God we know.

The explanation that fits the most with the Bible is that Jo was one of numerous prophets moved by God to speak up about a situation God has had longstanding patience with. Her concerns were real, legitimate, and echoed the experience of many people, including me. The devil has gotten way too comfortable running the show in the local church, and he didn't like the truth being shined in a dark place, and the devil is the one who acted in the suicide. The devil is out to steal, kill, and destroy. And that's what he did.

Hope you'll post more or pass along any additional updates.

Trapped

[Zezima]

Trapped, while your logic makes sense you’re forgetting a major point. The Lord’s Recovery is Gods move on earth, it’s the only place on earth that God is working & operating. It’s the only place that has The Vision, given to us by the Minister of the Age. The Lords recovery simply cannot be wrong, and everything negative spoken against it is an attack. Every other Christian group is wrong because they don’t have the vision that witness Lee received from God, a vision no other person in history has received or will received.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Trapped, while your logic makes sense you’re forgetting a major point. The Lord’s Recovery is Gods move on earth, it’s the only place on earth that God is working & operating. It’s the only place that has The Vision, given to us by the Minister of the Age. The Lords recovery simply cannot be wrong, and everything negative spoken against it is an attack. Every other Christian group is wrong because they don’t have the vision that witness Lee received from God, a vision no other person in history has received or will received.

What was I thinking.....how could I forget!?!

[Paul Vusik]

2 Peter 2:1-4
King James Version
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Just wanted to comment on the subject.
As much as it pains me to say this, but I believe that it is so hard for people who have gotten by the mercy of God out of it. Their whole identity has been destroyed, the person is the TLR. I have been doing a lot of work on trying to find help from people who have had experience with dealing with these situations, with little to no success. I was even told by a pastor, “Paul, there is no help there, or very little help, with people who have been in the cults, dealings with them is very difficult. I suggest you roll up your sleeves and get to work”. Over 90% of people never able to get out and get restored. That statement has resonated from quite of few people, so I think that once a person is reduced to be merchandise as stated in the scripture above, one needs a lot of trust, faith, and prayer to even understand these people. I ask those of you who are able and understand these people, seek God’s will and leading to help. These fields are many, but the workers are few!

God bless.

I'm still in the church because some of my family members are and will never leave. Me leaving will cause them extreme and and shame. Shame mainly from the saints and leading ones. I also have some close friends. Even though they teach don't have friends because when they leave they will influence you to leave. I also like and get some teachings that are helpful.

But not all teachings I agree with. Ricky Acosta who is a elder or co worker in New York has began speaking recently. His message this training spoke about how Satan is mainly attacking the young people and young working saints. He listed three ways: Fornication, suicide and mental illnesses. He said thinking is bad because it leads to these. And that you need to have a sound stable mind to be used by God.

One thing that Ricky mentions in all his messages is mental illnesses but also a matter of your life being all the Churches business. Said your life, marriage career etc needs to be for Christ and the Church. Which leads me to this. There was alot said so far in this training about deputy authority, rebellion, disobedience, flesh and self.

You know the past history of the views and treatment on women. Ron Kangas recently has said feminism is strong and men need to be men like the old days. So he thinks when it comes to marriage men need to go to the brothers and say they're interested in the sister and get other parties involved. I couldn't believe what he was telling the young people.

One more thing about the young people. Minoru and Ron have said a further attack on the young people is their phones and other electronics. They attacked the internet and social media of being used by Satan. They didn't just mention it but quite a bit of their messages was slotted to the matter. Minoru even declares war on the devices, the internet and apps.

Sorry, one last thing. Some saints even report what they see on social media to the elders. So if you go out and drink, go to a sporting event, other something deemed evil or angry you're one foot in the church life and one foot outside. And are going into the 1000 years. And if the rapture had right then you would be left.

Sorry so much to cover but would love to discuss their matters with my brothers and sisters.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Just wanted to comment on the subject. As much as it pains me to say this, but I believe that it is so hard for people who have gotten by the mercy of God out of it. Their whole identity has been destroyed, the person is the TLR.

Paul, thanks for jumping in. To add to this, if God was able to turn us from darkness to light, surely he can and will do it to others. Continue to pray specific prayers using names. Have faith, and don’t Bible thump them.

The LR isn’t just a mix of doctrines, it’s people’s entire life. It’s a very difficult experience to have that shattered, but with God all things are possible. Continue to have faith.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm still in the church because some of my family members are and will never leave. Me leaving will cause them extreme and and shame. Shame mainly from the saints and leading ones. I also have some close friends. Even though they teach don't have friends because when they leave they will influence you to leave. I also like and get some teachings that are helpful.

You mentioned many things.
Generally, in some points they are right about spiritual war.
There is many sources on YT and web sites with healthy teaching.
Healthy don't mean necessarily High Pick Revelations.
My detox was watching simply but spiritual teachings and messages.
For start I do recommend David Wilkerson, Paul Washer, series of Zac Poonen about discipleship.
Very simple common language, heart touching and pushing to pursuing the Lord.
I do encourage You to register yourself here so You can ask others on private and others ask You.
This way we can avoid guessing who is who among "unregistered". I used my name, but it can be any nick.
This could be first small step to make all advises more value and serious.

This forum and some topics can be helpful to recognize, that out of LC also can be Normal Christian life.
Not everything is corrupted in so called "christianity", and LC is not any arc or holly of holly's too.
I saw many confused youths in LC. Mostly LC kids.
I have three kids, and only one is interested in Jesus so far ( the same problems with cellphone, worldly things, smoking friends). Mostly it was my mistake.But so called LR betrayed them too.
Complicated story. Not everything goes as we wish to.

P.S. It is big difference when we listen to someone as the only and infallible source versus simply brother, discerning what can be truth and what overemphasized or false.
No body is perfect. And for sure those, who pretend they are.

God bless You!

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm still in the church because some of my family members are and will never leave. Me leaving will cause them extreme and and shame. Shame mainly from the saints and leading ones. I also have some close friends. Even though they teach don't have friends because when they leave they will influence you to leave. I also like and get some teachings that are helpful.

I wish I could spend more time responding to this post of yours, because you're right, there is so much to cover.

I am not sure how Ricky expects anyone to have a sound, stable mind if "thinking is bad". Thinking is how our mind is exercised and trained to be sound and stable. A church that condemns thinking is a cult....sorry to say.

To teach that your life, marriage, career need to be "for Christ and the church" is an enslavement.

Deputy authority, rebellions, disobedience, flesh, self - it is so sad that this is such the heavy focus in the local church. No wonder so many people secretly whisper that they are miserable.

Regarding phones/electronics/internet/social media - none of these things are inherently bad. Just like baseball or chopping wood or painting or baking. It is how we use them, and how much we do them, and what we do with them that makes them "dangerous". Geez, I'm sorry you have to hear so may threatening things from the co-workers, etc.

Your comments about saints "reporting" on other saints, and saints needing to go to the brothers regarding marriage reminded me of this video:

Recognizing a Spiritually Abusive Church - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eFjt5OyZD8

I think you will be shocked at the overlap. Notice, he is NOT talking about the local church, but just what characteristics a spiritually abusive church has. And the comparison to the local church is dead on.

Trapped

Ricky expects you to have a sound mind by setting your mind on the things of Christ which is life and peace. And having Christ's mind. Letting God have a free way to flow. With no flesh, natural, opinion, disobedience or rebellion. Sorry to repeat this.

And for the word, being the bible and the ministry to dwell in you richly. Becoming God in life nature but not God head. I don't think it was mentioned, but the church to it's members is not just teachings but it's their entire life. Coworkers even say the teachings need to no longer be teachings but become your living.

I won't go into details but many saints abstain from so much. Almost everything has to be a spiritual matter.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I am not sure how Ricky expects anyone to have a sound, stable mind if "thinking is bad". Thinking is how our mind is exercised and trained to be sound and stable. A church that condemns thinking is a cult....sorry to say. To teach that your life, marriage, career need to be "for Christ and the church" is an enslavement.

The little word “and” in the statement “Christ and the Church” is what sets the Lord’s Recovery apart as cultish. The word “church” used in that statement is a LSM code word for the assemblies within the controlling orbit of Living Stream Ministry.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But not all teachings I agree with. Ricky Acosta who is a elder or co worker in New York has began speaking recently. His message this training spoke about how Satan is mainly attacking the young people and young working saints. He listed three ways: Fornication, suicide and mental illnesses. He said thinking is bad because it leads to these. And that you need to have a sound stable mind to be used by God.
.

There is a lot of mixtured things. You are just rapporting , so I take those words in general, not as Ricky's words.

I do agree with this view. There is a war. We have to wake up and fight with enemy. How? Is it only prayer?

One hour ago I did receive message...

Young sister in Christ(17), daughter of loving parents, committed suicide.

All was about double christian life. The evening before, she was coming back with father from YP meeting. Smiling, behaving normally. No signs of depression.
Next day,Sunday morning,they could not find her, so they went to meeting without her taking younger siblings.
After they came back Police was waiting.

She had her own world in social media.
Some relationship was so strong that she believed in lies.
Satan gave her a thought, that suicide will be solution.
Love of parents, love of siblings and love from other Christians was put aside in shadow... Did not matter. Virtual reality was stronger...
Some experts had to breake in to mobile phone and laptop to check her life.

I am writing this being still in shock. We know them.

Another daughter ( teenager)landed in hospital having the same suicidal thoughts and depression.

Youngest 12, is alleged taking drugs (at school is drug dealers net, and nobody can change it).
They have veeery difficult time now.

They are one of those, who were fully involved in real faith.

My testimony about mother is:
When we prayed once time, I felt, like my spirit was taken up to heaven, like presence of God came down. I felt such a reality very rarely.
Mostly praying alone.
She is a sister of prayer. It is not empty term.
For me there are fleshly prayers, good logic good constructed.
Spiritual prayers, flowing from heart and spirit.
But prayer bringing others to the presence of God???
This is rare.
Father, godly brother, doing the best a whole live to rise kids for God. Good rules in home life, Bible all the time on table.
No body is blaming parents.

Some say, that they are totally broken, but staying in faith.
They built this faith for years.
This is painful and I can not even imagine their lost.
I am very sad but also mad with Satan. Wrath of God is coming on him.

But I also have kids, and my influence is limited by enemy by devices.
I also think all the time what can I change and what to do with my youngest (17).

I know Bible, I know Satan's plans. But at my own home and family I feel hopeless and powerless.
I am trying little by little touch my daughter's heart.
She is also under world influence. She writes songs. I heard words. Negative, pesymistic, abbys of soul.

I worry about her.


For now I can only pray hoping to contact them in January.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

FYI: I have not been able to get the link in the first post to work (shows Dropbox error). Also, the link from this last post (#19) from PriestlyScribe is flagged by my Norton as dangerous.

Sorry to respond so late to this heads-up. The web based E-Book for Greg Casteel is still under construction but some functions are working. Please try the following url: http://gregcasteel.net/

PS

[ACuriousFellow]

Just wanted to add my analysis of the "Special Fellowship" here.

I posted an article online if anyone is curious.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Just wanted to add my analysis of the "Special Fellowship" here.

I posted an article online if anyone is curious.

I am curious, but the link doesn't work.

[ACuriousFellow]

Thanks for catching that. Something went wrong with inputting the link. I was able to edit it in my previous comment and it works for me now. Let me know if it works for you! I'll put it in this comment, too.

Greg and Joanna Casteel Part 2: The Special Fellowship

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Thanks for catching that. Something went wrong with inputting the link. I was able to edit it in my previous comment and it works for me now. Let me know if it works for you! I'll put it in this comment, too.

Greg and Joanna Casteel Part 2: The Special Fellowship

I read it. I thought in the Local Churches we didn't have opinions? This special fellowship had plenty of opinions and labels too.
Reading quotes from the Special Fellowship reminded me of a phrase from an early 90's song The Unforgiven "label me label you".
Which comments were yours regarding the special fellowship?
In corporate living, I lived with 2 brothers who went through the full time training. I'm sure they were there too.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

Which comments were yours regarding the special fellowship?

In corporate living, I lived with 2 brothers who went through the full time training. I'm sure they were there too.

Was this question directed towards me? I feel like it is, but I'm having a brain fart so I'm not sure, haha!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Was this question directed towards me? I feel like it is, but I'm having a brain fart so I'm not sure, haha!

Yes, it was. In reading your online article, I couldn't tell which comments were yours versus those coming from the special fellowship.

[ACuriousFellow]

Well, anything that is not a cited quote is me writing my own words on the matter. I tried my best to showcase exactly what the "brothers" in that fellowship claimed to be saying and using their own language while also making it clear that what they were doing was quite shameful and deceitful. I suppose you could call it a type of sarcasm.

My very own direct, personal thoughts about Recovery doctrine can be seen more in those final quotes where I typed in bold text an interpretation of the ministry.

It comes after the following disclaimer on the article:

(The following interpretations of quotes from a Recovery magazine are to demonstrate how many including myself have felt under the teachings and practices of Witness Lee and The Lord’s Recovery. Many in The Lord’s Recovery would claim that such people sadly misinterpreted the text, but the personal experiences within The Lord’s Recovery of many ex-members such as myself and the Casteels match such supposed misinterpretations. The quotes are taken from The Ministry of the Word, Vol. 16, No. 12, December 2012. The Overcomers. Message 11:The Overcomers in Sardis (2) Overcoming the Deadness of Sardis. Kindle Version. Pages 96, 98, 103, 105, and 107. Published by Living Stream Ministry)

There's a bunch of quotes from the ministry in italics that I shared my thoughts on immediately after each quote in bolded text.

[ACuriousFellow]

A prime example of my sarcasm would be the following:

The twelfth speaker, a member who identified himself as Phillip Bates, was particularly dedicated to this concept of avoiding focusing on what is negative and therefore filthy and infectious to the church, equating Jo Casteel’s letter with this manner of garbage that the leading brothers warned against, claiming to give earnest prayer to the authors and all else who had been damaged by their letter.

[1:46:39] The first is the letter. Uh, I’m choosing to ignore it. Uh, I have the Reddit. I kind of understand what its, what its contents are about and that’s enough for me. I don’t, uh, I don’t like trash cans and, uh, I don’t like death. And so as for me, I’m just not gonna, I’m not gonna read it. Um, and then for the authors and those affected, uh, I so much appreciate the brothers heart that, uh, they are so clear: we are fighting toward the enemy, and we love, pray for, and shepherd the author and all those affected. Those are our brothers and sisters, and our heart is for them that they would be fully restored.

With all love and prayer, Jo’s letter was characterized by the brothers as:

(Note: The timestamps in the following list begin shortly before the claim being referenced to provide better context.)

1) an attack on Witness Lee, who is considered the Minister of the Age, the one man that receives God’s one true speaking for his people on earth in every age (by speaker 1: Minoru Chen at [16:45]),
2) an attack on the next generation of members in The Lord’s Recovery (by speaker 2, Chris Wilde at [34:55], speaker 3: James Lin at [52:46], and speaker 6: David Bates at [1:17:09]),
3) an attack on the ministry of Witness Lee, the Ministry of the Age which is considered to be God’s one true speaking for all the believers on earth (speaker 10: Travis at [1:36:46], and speaker 18: Eric at [2:13:00]),
4) an attack on the brothers (speaker 10: Travis at [1:36:46], and speaker 12: Phillip Bates at [1:47:30]),
5) an attack on the believers’ families and their inheritance (Speaker 11: Marvin at [1:42:45]),
6) an attack on their spiritual fathers and leaders (speaker 16: Joel at [2:08:49], and speaker 18: Eric at [2:13:00]),
7) an attack of death (speaker 17: Samuel Vincent at [2:10:33]),
8) an attack on their faith ((speaker 17: Samuel Vincent at [2:12:15], and speaker 18: Eric at [2:13:00]),
9) an attack of the evil one (speaker 1: Minoru Chen at [2:28:08]), and
10) an attack from Satan (speaker 6: David Bates at [1:17:09] and [1:18:00], and speaker 10: Travis at [1:36:46]).

You'll note that any direct quotes from the audio or references to things said in the audio are timestamped, and I've provided a file with a rough transcript of the Special Fellowship in my article as well.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

A prime example of my sarcasm would be the following:



You'll note that any direct quotes from the audio or references to things said in the audio are timestamped, and I've provided a file with a rough transcript of the Special Fellowship in my article as well.

I started a thread years ago, but the link is broken.

https://localchurchdiscussions.com/v...ighlight=Group

Here's the link to the group think article.

https://chalcedon.edu/resources/arti...egations-alike

My point, the LSM/LC is captive to group think. Their feelings and opinions is always labeled as "life", "peace", and "truth".
Anything not consistent with their group think is leprous, poisonous, and an attack. Us versus Them mentality.
No room for reason. No room for accountability. No room to be faithful to the leading of ones conscience. If God the Father is leading one to an ecclesia apart from the local churches, expect more damaging speaking.
To label something as an attack is not new. In another post I recounted a prayer meeting I was in. Something held up trusses from being released to the Bellevue meeting hall expansion. The church was under attack by the enemy. Whether person or object, to the LSM/LC it's us versus them.
As for Jo, her words was not one of poison, but of conscience, reason, integrity, and being under God's headship and not the brothers.
As for those brothers who spoke, what would their reaction be if one of their children was harmed spiritually, mentally, emotionally, or physically by brothers or serving ones? Just come under submission and ask their spouse and children to likewise come under submission???

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

As much as it pains me to say this, but I believe that it is so hard for people who have gotten by the mercy of God out of it. Their whole identity has been destroyed, the person is the TLR. I have been doing a lot of work on trying to find help from people who have had experience with dealing with these situations, with little to no success. I was even told by a pastor, “Paul, there is no help there, or very little help, with people who have been in the cults, dealings with them is very difficult. I suggest you roll up your sleeves and get to work”. Over 90% of people never able to get out and get restored. That statement has resonated from quite of few people, so I think that once a person is reduced to be merchandise as stated in the scripture above, one needs a lot of trust, faith, and prayer to even understand these people. I ask those of you who are able and understand these people, seek God’s will and leading to help. These fields are many, but the workers are few!

Hi Paul, one free resource that has helped in my LC self-deprogramming has been the testimonies of former JWs. Here is one group's youtube channel. They are also on facebook. Hope this helps somebody...

P.S.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

My point, the LSM/LC is captive to group think. Their feelings and opinions is always labeled as "life", "peace", and "truth".
Anything not consistent with their group think is leprous, poisonous, and an attack. Us versus Them mentality.

You're absolutely correct. That's the disturbing trend I tried to highlight in my article with all the quotations I added. "Don't make people feel negative." "Don't be a negative speaker." "Don't poison others." "Don't be death." Without much thought or consideration, everyone is simply encouraged to accept Jo Casteel's testimony as trash and poison. They are effectively told to disregard any mentions of abuse and Mrs. Casteel is repeatedly gaslighted with comments like "this isn't Disney" and "no church is perfect."

My question to the brothers would be "what does that do to change our priorities in this situation? Of course no church is perfect. Everyone knows that. Now give an ear to your sister and Christ and deal with these situations in your churches and your teachings rather than just taking a huge public dump on her and dodging the questions and issues."

What utter nonsense it is I see coming from these men, and they are all supposedly leaders of The Lord's Recovery and graduates of the Full-time training! Here are the next generation of leaders looking at their sister in distress and saying "I don't need garbage in my life"! As such, I do not see these matters being dealt with properly anytime soon. Perhaps, if the Lord is willing, many consciences in the audience were pricked and many of these graduates have begun to consider seriously what it is that is happening in their churches. What a beautiful irony it would be that this conference designed to reinforce the authority of the "blended brothers" would serve to open up the hearts of the next generation of leaders in The Lord's Recovery and lead to some true change, repentance, and reconciliation.

I will not hold my breath for such things, though.

[TLFisher]

So much packed into ACuriousFellow’s post to respond to.

“No church is perfect”

Of course not. Just look at Revelation chapter 2-3. All churches fit the description in this passage except for Philadelphia. Though in my youth growing up in the local churches, they expressly identified as Philadelphia. What changed? All they no longer Philadelphia? Just to utter “no church is perfect” is disingenuous. It is in fact excusing bad behavior. Even if it is criminal behavior.
If full-timers and responsible ones are being effectively told to disregard any mentions of abuse, what will happen if their spouses or daughters someday express the same concerns Jo did? Will these brothers be consistent with the words they had towards Jo or will they have a change of heart?

“Now give an ear to your sister and Christ and deal with these situations in your churches and your teachings rather than just taking a huge public dump on her and dodging the questions and issues."

Introspection is not encouraged in the local churches. Although they should practice introspection not just individually, but corporately. Instead they focus on "don't be a negative speaker". Even that is hypocritical as they cherry-pick whom to reserve their negative speaking for. I’ve heard it spoken in more than one locality.

“What utter nonsense it is I see coming from these men, and they are all supposedly leaders of The Lord's Recovery and graduates of the Full-time training! Here are the next generation of leaders looking at their sister in distress and saying "I don't need garbage in my life"! As such, I do not see these matters being dealt with properly anytime soon.”

I can echo the same sentiment. When I read Fermentation of the Present Rebellion (1991/1992), I thought the same “I don’t need garbage in my life”. The book was more fitting for a Hollywood movie script than from a Christian publisher. I as many had prayed and hoped for a reconciliation for many years, I did not see these matters being dealt with properly anytime soon and that time has passed.

“What a beautiful irony it would be that this conference designed to reinforce the authority of the "blended brothers" would serve to open up the hearts of the next generation of leaders in The Lord's Recovery and lead to some true change, repentance, and reconciliation.

I will not hold my breath for such things, though.”

I will not hold my breath for such things either. Though I know many of the next generation know such words as grace, repentance and reconciliation. Do these FTT graduates know how to in practice give grace to someone they do not agree with? Quite obviously in this special fellowship, there was no evidence giving grace to Jo.
In my opinion grace is an abstract concept to them and not very practical. Repentance and reconciliation is more geared for ones relationship with the Father. When it comes to one another, I fear they have been led astray by the teaching of authority and submission. When they think of a “ministry of reconciliation” as in 2 Corinthians 5:18, that is meant for bring unbelievers to be reconciled to God. Not for us to be reconciled one to another.

[I tell the truth]

Two years after this happened, Jo was attacked in the semi annual training. JL, said that she allowed a demon to enter into her in which he claims the recovery was attacked by it.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by I tell the truth

Two years after this happened, Jo was attacked in the semi annual training. JL, said that she allowed a demon to enter into her in which he claims the recovery was attacked by it.

Makes sense. Every now and again they love to remind people of how wicked she is. It's quite a shame. She seemed so earnest and heartbroken in her letter. She seemed to have a sense of desperation and hope that the others would at least hear her out, but many of them closed their hearts to her. Now she's simply a talking point for the leaders to bring up to the "saints" of The Lord's Recovery about a person who offers nothing but "trash," "poison," and "death." I guess wanting to have an earnest conversation about how to make your church a better, safer place for the next generation simply isn't on the minds of those mighty "blended brothers." No doubt it's simply another aspect of the "low gospel" that us lesser Christians so desperately cling to.

Well, if you ever manage to find some audio for this, feel free to share it on this thread. It's always good to catalog as much information as possible seeing as how the leading ones in the Local Churches are always hoping for saints to simply forget all the shameful and foolish things they do and say.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by I tell the truth

Two years after this happened, Jo was attacked in the semi annual training. JL, said that she allowed a demon to enter into her in which he claims the recovery was attacked by it.

JL (would that be James Lee?), is taking the approach better to blame than to be blamed. Much is the Recovery approach of not wanting to accept nor acknowledge accountability.
Instead we have a sister Jo was speaking according to her conscience and conviction.
Maybe not always, at at least for the last 30 years the The Lord's Recovery, reflex reaction is to claim being attacked.
Was there truly an attack? Who were the witnesses to the physical altercation?
If JL's comments is rooted in objection to Jo Casteel's letter, it's not really an attack after all.

[I tell the truth]

It was the winter training of 2021. I'll have to remember the message number. Yes, James was the speaker. Only the audio is on the lsm webcast site. And it's probably in the book too that accompanies the morning revival. I highly doubt it was edited out of each. As it was just another opportunity to attack her two years later.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm still in the church as I have been a church kid for many years. We are in the middle of the winter training and guess what they still haven't forgot about Jo.

James Lee was sharing about Amalek, about the self and flesh. During the message he said in the last rebellion, two years ago some one was possessed and energized by a demon to write and speak so well and aggressive in attacking.

Hope all is well and happy holidays my brothers and sisters.