San Antonio Elders

Hello there. I'm curious to know if anyone is familiar with the elders from San Antonio. I'd like to hear your stories about them if you are willing and able.

To my knowledge, the current elders are:

1. George Whittington

2. Mike Findeisin (Pretty sure I misspelled his name)

3. Enoch Elliot

4. Brad Nabers (I think he is technically a former elder? He sure seems to function like one)

5. Victor Sotelo (He is the newest elder, I believe, or at least an elder in training)

I've read some tidbits about George on this site, and it seems like he's consistently been a decent guy. That tracks with my experiences.

From what I've experienced in my time in San Antonio, Victor, Brad, and Mike are staunch supporters of The Lord's Recovery. By this I mean that they don't take too kindly to those who openly challenge Witness Lee's doctrines and theology. Overall, Mike seems like the most levelheaded of these three.

I haven't had many conversations with Enoch, but I've heard from one brother that he is apparently more tolerant of those who raise challenging questions.

I could tell you lots about my experiences with them, but I want to hear from others about them. I think it'll just help me feel less alone. I feel like they'd know who I was if they saw this, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. I wasn't exactly quiet during my departure. They are well aware of the fact that I left and why I left.

But if you feel like it would compromise your anonymity, then definitely don't do it! Don't be in a rush to share!

God bless!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by That Guy Over There

Hello there. I'm curious to know if anyone is familiar with the elders from San Antonio. I'd like to hear your stories about them if you are willing and able.

To my knowledge, the current elders are:

1. George Whittington
2. Mike Findeisin (Pretty sure I misspelled his name)
3. Enoch Elliot
4. Brad Nabers (I think he is technically a former elder? He sure seems to function like one)
5. Victor Sotelo (He is the newest elder, I believe, or at least an elder in training)

I've read some tidbits about George on this site, and it seems like he's consistently been a decent guy. That tracks with my experiences.

From what I've experienced in my time in San Antonio, Victor, Brad, and Mike are staunch supporters of The Lord's Recovery. By this I mean that they don't take too kindly to those who openly challenge Witness Lee's doctrines and theology. Overall, Mike seems like the most levelheaded of these three.

I haven't had many conversations with Enoch, but I've heard from one brother that he is apparently more tolerant of those who raise challenging questions.

I could tell you lots about my experiences with them, but I want to hear from others about them. I think it'll just help me feel less alone. I feel like they'd know who I was if they saw this, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. I wasn't exactly quiet during my departure. They are well aware of the fact that I left and why I left.

But if you feel like it would compromise your anonymity, then definitely don't do it! Don't be in a rush to share!

God bless!

That Guy Over There,
I was in SA for awhile, a long time ago. I knew George and Cleo Whitington in Austin. They were strong advocates, but also kind and gracious. When I was there, Brad was a "new guy" and not yet an elder. Steve Clark was the EIC (Elder in Charge, my term). It was not a pleasant experience for me.

Nell

[Recovering]

Originally Posted by That Guy Over There

Hello there. I'm curious to know if anyone is familiar with the elders from San Antonio. I'd like to hear your stories about them if you are willing and able.

To my knowledge, the current elders are:

1. George Whittington

2. Mike Findeisin (Pretty sure I misspelled his name)

3. Enoch Elliot

4. Brad Nabers (I think he is technically a former elder? He sure seems to function like one)

5. Victor Sotelo (He is the newest elder, I believe, or at least an elder in training)

I knew Mike and Victor from their time in Austin. When I was at UT, Mike was serving full-time, and Victor came into the LC through Christians on Campus, as it was known at the time. Mike was in one of the first cohorts to go to the FTT (while I was in High School) and come back to serve in Austin. I looked up to him, although I wouldn't say I know him super well; he was not particularly "my" full-timer like some of the others were. I remember him as a generally decent guy, but who could also get fired up about TLR. I heard at one point from someone or other that he went through a period of engaging with "opposers" online, but at that time I had my head down regarding that kind of thing. [In context, that conversation conveyed to me the thought that his zeal to defend TLR was both a little quixotic and dangerous, since you really have to know how to handle the poison. Better leave that kind of engagement to people who know what they're doing, and even so, pray for them so they don't get "damaged".] I wonder whether this is one of the forums where he was (or is? Hi, Mike! PM if you want to talk.) active.

My impression of Victor is that he always seemed a gentle soul and sincere, but my experience is limited. Last I talked to him several years ago, I still thought he was a decent guy.

I was discussing this post with my wife this morning, and we agreed that these men are are probably typical examples of brothers in leadership in TLR. They love the Lord and are sincere in their pursuit of him; they genuinely believe in doctrines like locality as the genuine ground of oneness; they have experiences that reinforce the narrative of "degraded Christianity", and they have a least a little human capacity for leadership. They also find themselves in church leadership (elders) and positions of responsibility (responsible ones) without adequate preparation and often in way over their heads. They start to notice problems, and may or may not be able to realize that they are fruits of the culture, not exceptions to it. But in any case, whether consciously or not they feel trapped, unable to make a change with so many people depending on them for care and relationships and reputations at stake. Some unfortunately begin to rationalize things that bother their conscience, and without realizing it they begin to practice patterns of spiritual abuse. Others end up processing the inner conflict with a lot of mental gymnastics and thought-stopping calling on the Lord. I've seen it go both ways.

I was on that path myself, and only stepped back from my role as a "responsible one" when the dissonance became too hard to bear. But it was hard and I definitely felt trapped, because at that time, I was really concerned about not stumbling the saints and fearful of the loss of relationships.

As someone formerly on that path, I hope that we will pray for these brothers to have sensitized consciences and strength for repentance and restoration where needed.

Originally Posted by Recovering

My impression of Victor is that he always seemed a gentle soul and sincere, but my experience is limited. Last I talked to him several years ago, I still thought he was a decent guy.

For the most part, he could be a gentle soul. I very much looked up to him for many years, but very early on I learned that there was to be no debating him on Recovery doctrine or the decisions of the leadership. In these situations, he was not so gentle anymore. I still remember when he tried to teach me of a particular doctrine early on. I told him that while I thought it was an interesting theory, I didn't believe the scripture he presented sufficiently supported the doctrine to the point where we should say it was absolute truth like they did in The Recovery. He became quite angry with me because I could not "see the truth" in the scriptures. It was very scary for me, and it was not the first time he would lay it into me for questioning the Recovery or the decisions of the elders.

I was discussing this post with my wife this morning, and we agreed that these men are are probably typical examples of brothers in leadership in TLR. They love the Lord and are sincere in their pursuit of him; they genuinely believe in doctrines like locality as the genuine ground of oneness; they have experiences that reinforce the narrative of "degraded Christianity", and they have a least a little human capacity for leadership. They also find themselves in church leadership (elders) and positions of responsibility (responsible ones) without adequate preparation and often in way over their heads. They start to notice problems, and may or may not be able to realize that they are fruits of the culture, not exceptions to it. But in any case, whether consciously or not they feel trapped, unable to make a change with so many people depending on them for care and relationships and reputations at stake. Some unfortunately begin to rationalize things that bother their conscience, and without realizing it they begin to practice patterns of spiritual abuse. Others end up processing the inner conflict with a lot of mental gymnastics and thought-stopping calling on the Lord. I've seen it go both ways.

My mother, who encountered them briefly during my final year in The Recovery, feels the same about Victor in particular. He is a trapped soul, but she thinks he's wise enough to realize that something is wrong and is simply too sunk in to want to do anything about it. I'm not so certain from the things I've seen and heard, but one can hope... My heart is particularly broken over him, but I could not in good conscience remain in The Lord's Recovery simply because "the brothers" and "the good times." To me, it is an insult to use our love for one another as an excuse to ignore evil and act wickedly.

I was on that path myself, and only stepped back from my role as a "responsible one" when the dissonance became too hard to bear. But it was hard and I definitely felt trapped, because at that time, I was really concerned about not stumbling the saints and fearful of the loss of relationships.

As someone formerly on that path, I hope that we will pray for these brothers to have sensitized consciences and strength for repentance and restoration where needed.

I dearly hope so as well. It brings my heart great pain to think of them. I found out that Victor and some other loved ones were quite upset with me when I departed, but as I've said, my conscience cannot abide what I witnessed. This was only multiplied when I realized the exact same issue is quite pervasive throughout that denomination. If I was 99% certain I made the right decision in leaving before, I am now 100% certain after having reviewed Lee's teachings, having seen the testimonies of others, and having researched the history of that sect.