Prophecy - The End Times

[Nell]

I think it’s important to be reminded of and hold onto the words that Witness Lee spoke about America.

This WL quote became stagnant at his death in 1998. World events didn't stop at Lee's death, so I don't think he covered all the bases.

This quote also presumes that God needs another world power to take another step. It presumes that God's "final move" is not already underway. I believe America is under God's judgement now, and has been since perhaps September 11, 2001, if not January, 1973 when Roe v. Wade began the legalized mass murder of children.

The evidence of what Clay Christensen discussed with his Marxist friend from China is the apostasy of the American people including, to an extent, the American church. A Chinese Marxist can see it clearly, but the American people cannot.

Possibly January, 1973 was a tipping point. Since the U.S. Constitution is chartered "Of the people, by the people and for the people", legalized mass murder of children, as of today a staggering 63 million plus, children, the American people have heaped judgment upon themselves since 1973. The American church didn't object much. Why? A strong delusion?

Whatever the American people allows the government to enact, which is against God's nature, God's will, and God's plan, this is on the American people who allowed it. This can only provoke Him and His judgment. Judgment begins at the House of God.

Do you think that the current earthquakes (Turkey), volcano eruptions (Hawaii), pandemic (worldwide), famine (worldwide), violent weather patterns (US tornadic activity)...do you think this coincidence? It's true there have always been such things, but it doesn't seem to be on a global scale as it is now. What about that de-railed train in Ohio? What about those "signs in the sky"? What's going on? I don't know.

Now is not the time to look to the Federal Government for relief, protection and sound judgment. It really troubles me to see the America I love going down this path, but I cannot "not see" the hand of God. and His judgment unfolding like a scroll.

“As religion loses its influence over Americans, what will happen to democracy? Where are the institutions that are going to teach the next generation of Americans that they too must voluntarily choose to obey the laws?"

Is there any question that "religion" (God) has lost its influence over many, if not most, Americans? Is there any question that democracy is devolving into socialism, where God is given no place or space in the lives of many Americans today?

So...I keep thinking...what am I supposed to do? Apart from repenting for things in my life that shouldn't be there, praying for light, praying for God wake-up His people...what am I supposed to do? Apart from what I'm doing now (moderating a Christian forum), what am I supposed to do?

Truthfully, I won't know until He tells me, and I keep asking every day when something new pops up. For now, all I know to do is to keep telling the truth of what I see and hear from him, in fellowship with others. That includes, paying attention to what's going on. Watch. Pray. Look up!

Until then, I just live my life as a baseball fan(season tickets), a Dallas Cowboys fan, a photography fan (3 cameras) , etc. I have 3 sewing machines that do different things, 5 different OS laptop computers (retired network engineer), a ham radio...my motto is "have toys, will play". I think you get the idea. I'm not a prophecy nut (I don't think). I just want to be available to the Lord for whatever he has for me. Oh, and I do a little prepping. Worst case, I may have a nice donation for local food bank someday...so why not?

Hopefully, you will be willing to think differently from what you've always thought about these things.

Nell

[Nell]

Here’s a WLee quote from his Life Study of Revelation covering Rev. 9. It’s interesting to me because, though dated, he links the end times to China. Today China and the US are … whatever they are. His comments though don’t really imply an adversarial relationship, between “us and them” as clearly exists today.

II. TWO HUNDRED MILLION CAVALRY TROOPS
Verse 16 says, “And the number of the cavalry troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.” In order to kill the third part of men, the four angels will use two hundred million cavalry troops. The number of these horsemen is nearly that of the total population of the United States. The two hundred million horsemen will come from the rising of the sun (16:12), that is, from the east. The place on earth that produces the most horses is Mongolia. The Western world has invented so many modern methods of transportation, but these cavalry from the east will not use them. Instead, they will use horses. …

….I have been saved for more than fifty years. During the years since 1918 I have spent much time observing the world situation and studying the prophecies in the Bible. I can testify that no time has been closer to the fulfillment of the New Testament prophecy than today. Today’s world news is focused on the Middle East. Much of the daily news concerning the Middle East matches what is spoken in the Bible. This means that the Lord is keeping His word and that prophecies are now being fulfilled. Undoubtedly, we are very close to the time of the sixth seal, the main aspect of which is the great earthquake.

So, of course, we are closer now than then, and as of today, China seems to be a bigger player than the Middle East. Then there’s the massive earthquake in Turkey. There are no conclusions, other than “we’re closer today” and IMHO, something is going on. I can’t imagine the 200M horsemen…

Nell

[Zezima]

Nell, Do you think humans can dictate when God comes back or delay his coming, like we were taught in the Recovery?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Nell, Do you think humans can dictate when God comes back or delay his coming, like we were taught in the Recovery?

No.

I don't think the second coming has anything to do with what was taught in the non-Recovery. What I remember is that "bring the Lord back" was used almost like a tag line for a lot of other teachings..."if" we do this, "then" we will "bring the Lord back." It was also used somewhat to manipulate the behavior of the membership.

I don't think you mean "dictate" literally, regardless, I don't think anyone "dictates" to God. I further don't think Lee's teachings are authoritative and God is not bound by them.

2 Peter 3 gives us some direction, but nothing that correlates to Witness Lee's teachings. To me v. 14 maybe gives us the best advice: "be at peace with God". Then, v. 17 "don't get carried away with error."

If Lee's teachings motivate his followers to "be at peace with God" and to "don't get carried away with error..." That's one thing, but I don't think that's what's happening. It's like that "tag line" is being held over our/their heads.

2 Peter 3 does specify "the day of the Lord", not limited exclusively to his coming. A lot will be happening related to his return and God's final judgment.

The Day of the Lord 2 Peter 3
...
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? ...

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

What do you think?
Nell

[Zezima]

Not sure, something I’ve been considering. Verse 12 from Peter that you posted suggests it, at the same time it seems odd that if we do something then God will come.

Thanks for your response

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Not sure, something I’ve been considering. Verse 12 from Peter that you posted suggests it, at the same time it seems odd that if we do something then God will come.

Thanks for your response

I noticed that too; speed its coming. My thought is that in that verse, perhaps it's implied that maybe:
* living a holy and godly life speeds his coming
* looking forward to the day of God...speeds its coming.

However, it's possible that "looking forward" doesn't mean the same thing now as it did then. Today, the common meaning of "look forward" is anticipation of some happy, pleasant, desirable event (looking forward to the birth of a child, looking forward to baseball season (!), to spring, etc.)

Looking forward in 2 Peter 3, could be more literal. Looking forward simply because whatever is to come is "up next". Looking forward to what's going on literally in the heavens and on the earth.

Another question is the "day of God". The 2nd coming and the day of God aren't the same thing, are they? The day of God, in context of 2Peter3 describes the final judgment of the earth.

Nell

Revelation 16:13-15
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

[Nell]

I know what "woke" means, though I've never found a precise definition--it seemingly changes every day...it keeps getting worse. It's one of those "I know it when I see it" things. I watched a video yesterday that came as a surprise to me..."woke" had been described and prophecied by Isaiah from the actions of those who practiced it a long time ago. So "woke" is nothing new.

The KJV translates "how terrible it will be" as "Woe unto them".

NIV: Isaiah 5:18 How terrible it will be for those who continue to sin and lie about it! How terrible for those who keep on doing what is evil as if they were tied to it! (Perhaps they ARE "tied to it"...demonically.)
19 How terrible for those who say, “Let God hurry up and do what he says he will. We want to see it happen. Let us see the plan of the Holy One of Israel. We want to know what it is.” (Mocking God to His face.)
20 How terrible it will be for those who say that what is evil is good! How terrible for those who say that what is good is evil! How terrible for those who say that darkness is light and light is darkness! How terrible for those who say that what is bitter is sweet and what is sweet is bitter!
21 How terrible it will be for those who think they are wise! How terrible for those who think they are really clever!
22 How terrible it will be for those who are heroes at drinking wine! How terrible for those who are heroes at mixing drinks!
23 How terrible for those who take money to set guilty people free! How terrible for those who don’t treat good people fairly!
24 Flames of fire burn up straw. Dry grass sinks down into those flames.
Evil people will be like plants whose roots rot away. They will be like flowers that are blown away like dust. That’s because they have said no to the law of the Lord who rules over all. They have turned against the message of the Holy One of Israel.
25 So the Lord is angry with his people. He raises his hand against them and strikes them down. The mountains shake. The bodies of dead people lie in the streets like trash. Even then, the Lord is still angry. His hand is still raised against them.

Since I watch/listen/read the news, I could make a list, giving examples that match the verses above and naming names of the actors. I just didn't realize that Isaiah had prophecied the events of the world today a long time ago...right down to the mountains shaking.

I have a new perspective on "woke". What do you think?

Nell

[Nell]

CASHLESS SOCIETY?
Are we on the verge of a cashless society? How cool! Uh-oh...did the Bible prophecy a cashless society 2,000 years ago?

Revelation 13:16-18:
"He (the false prophet; Rev. 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."

Could this refer to the current move toward a cashless society? If cash was still in use, would the “mark” be necessary? It doesn’t seem so. From time to time, I attend Major League Baseball games. The venue I attend is cashless. Totally. If I want to make a purchase I do so through my "smart phone" which connects with my “account” which contains my credit card information. If my phone cannot make a connection to…whatever…I can't park, or attend the game, even though I purchased a ticket. I can't buy food. No paper tickets and no cash.

I'm sure you likely have your own examples of cashless venues? Imagine what life would be like if your cash was “no good”…anywhere. Could this situation be considered parallel to Revelation 13:17 ... that we cannot buy or sell unless we … have a smart phone?

SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL?
Is the “mark of the beast” totally a spiritual scripture reference? We see two physical locations stating the mark will be one place or the other: a hand or forehead which is not spiritual…is it?

ANIMALS WITH RFID MICROCHIPS:
Animals have been successfully tracked with implanted microchips for a long time. What about humans? Many today cannot consider "life as we know it" without constant possession and usage of their smart phones...especially children and young people. The rationale of implanting animals became a major necessity as well as a convenience. Is the next step to implant people with a microchip which contains features of the smart phone..., i.e., the "smart wallet"?

What do you think? Is there a case here?
More later...
Nell
________
Another thought...in a cashless society, what if the Internet becomes compromised to the extent that digital/electronic communication is impossible. Wow...what if digital communication, i.e., the grid, were compromised today (4/11/23)?