LSM: To observe Christmas, its doubtful you’re a new creation

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Exaculy my thoughts these days!

Our prayer Tuesday night was that the Lord would speak through certain Christ honoring Christmas carols to unbelievers.

Wasn’t this Apostle Paul’s attitude? Did not he risk his own life to go back to Jerusalem for the Passover? He knew in advance that he might be arrested, or worse, yet he still wanted to be there for Passover. Did not Paul know clearly that the Passover was part of the old covenant? That Jesus fulfilled the Passover? That in Jerusalem they only celebrated types, figures, shadows, but the body, the reality, was Christ Himself?

Of course he did. Yet he still went. He went with prayer. He used the Passover festivities to meet people, to share Christ, to bring gifts, to sing the hymns. Should not we do the same? Should not we all have the same liberties?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wasn’t this Apostle Paul’s attitude? Did not he risk his own life to go back to Jerusalem for the Passover? He knew in advance that he might be arrested, or worse, yet he still wanted to be there for Passover. Did not Paul know clearly that the Passover was part of the old covenant? That Jesus fulfilled the Passover? That in Jerusalem they only celebrated types, figures, shadows, but the body, the reality, was Christ Himself?

Of course he did. Yet he still went. He went with prayer. He used the Passover festivities to meet people, to share Christ, to bring gifts, to sing the hymns. Should not we do the same? Should not we all have the same liberties?

Very good! Thank you for sharing this aspect of Paul’s life.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wasn’t this Apostle Paul’s attitude? Did not he risk his own life to go back to Jerusalem for the Passover? He knew in advance that he might be arrested, or worse, yet he still wanted to be there for Passover. Did not Paul know clearly that the Passover was part of the old covenant? That Jesus fulfilled the Passover? That in Jerusalem they only celebrated types, figures, shadows, but the body, the reality, was Christ Himself?

Of course he did. Yet he still went. He went with prayer. He used the Passover festivities to meet people, to share Christ, to bring gifts, to sing the hymns. Should not we do the same? Should not we all have the same liberties?

At the very least your salvation, your membership to the new creation, have nothing to do with your participation in this holiday.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Zezima

At the very least your salvation, your membership to the new creation, have nothing to do with your participation in this holiday.

And it's really just a cultural thing, a minor thing, like Paul addresses with these two verses:

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

At the very least your salvation, your membership to the new creation, have nothing to do with your participation in this holiday.

The remembrance and celebration of the Lord's birth, His death, and His resurrection are all notable Western holidays and are beneficial to reach our children, our families, our friends, and the unbelievers.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You missed the point. Intentionally I suppose.

The remembrance and celebration of the Lord's birth, His death, and His resurrection are all notable Western holidays and are beneficial to reach our children, our families, our friends, and the unbelievers.

Christians have endured isolation, imprisonment, starvation, and the most brutal forms of torture known to man, and none of these have affected their "membership to the new creation."

Zezima is saying "If someone celebrates Christmas, then at a minimum we should definitely not consider their Christmas celebration to affect their membership in the new creation".

I think you actually would agree with Zezima but just misread the comment.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Zezima is saying "If someone celebrates Christmas, then at a minimum we should definitely not consider their Christmas celebration to affect their membership in the new creation".

I think you actually would agree with Zezima but just misread the comment.

Perhaps you are right. Hopefully Z can explain, so I can go back and edit my post before the time expires.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You missed the point. Intentionally I suppose.

The remembrance and celebration of the Lord's birth, His death, and His resurrection are all notable Western holidays and are beneficial to reach our children, our families, our friends, and the unbelievers.

Christians have endured isolation, imprisonment, starvation, and the most brutal forms of torture known to man, and none of these have affected their "membership to the new creation."

I think you misread my point


“Christmas is certainly related to the religious world. If you still observe Christmas, it is doubtful that you are living a new creation. The celebration of Christmas has nothing to do with God’s new creation.”

-Life study of Galatians, msg 30

Witness Lee is “doubtful” that you’re living in the new creation” if you observe Christmas.

However Witness Lee is 100% wrong regardless of your opinion of Christmas. We are under the new covenant, bought with the blood of Jesus. Our membership in the new creation has everything to do with Him, it has nothing to do with what we “observe”. Paul even says in the very book Witness lee is using as a backdrop for his false teaching “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything”.

Im not saying this holiday is or isn’t beneficial (as there are fair arguments to be made for both sides). I’m saying your membership in the new creation is NOT dependent on you participating in this holiday or abstaining from the holiday.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

I think you misread my point


“Christmas is certainly related to the religious world. If you still observe Christmas, it is doubtful that you are living a new creation. The celebration of Christmas has nothing to do with God’s new creation.”

-Life study of Galatians, msg 30

Witness Lee is “doubtful” that you’re living in the new creation” if you observe Christmas.

However Witness Lee is 100% wrong regardless of your opinion of Christmas. We are under the new covenant, bought with the blood of Jesus. Our membership in the new creation has everything to do with Him, it has nothing to do with what we “observe”. Paul even says in the very book Witness lee is using as a backdrop for his false teaching “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything”.

Im not saying this holiday is or isn’t beneficial (as there are fair arguments to be made for both sides). I’m saying your membership in the new creation is NOT dependent on you participating in this holiday or abstaining from the holiday.

Ok, sorry, my bad, we’re good here.

[Bible-believer]

As Christians, we can “use” this holiday season to try to reach the lost. As the missionary martyr Nate Saint said in December 1955, just prior to his death in early 1956: “As we have had a high time this Xmas, may we who know Christ hear the cry of the damned as they hurtle headlong into the Christless night without a chance. May we be moved with compassion as our Lord was. May we shed tears of repentance for those we have failed to bring out of the darkness. Beyond the smiling scenes of Bethlehem may we see the crushing agony of Golgotha. May God give us a new vision of His will concerning the lost and our responsibility.”

By Brian Donovan

[JJ]

Great points made on this thread already!

The community churches I have attended in Bakersfield and Turlock, CA since I left TLR for good in 2015 are very good about using the Christmas and Easter seasons as opportunities to exort attendees to not get lost in the commercial versions of these holidays and take advantage of them to preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

While on one level it always seems somewhat weird to be engaged in various biblical based sermon series (this years’ is on Phillipians and how that letter applies to us today) and “put them on ice” so the topic of Jesus’ first coming and hope of His second coming dominate the preaching and singing for a while. But, I have come to appreciate and enjoy diving deep into how amazing Jesus is in his incarnation, death, and resurrection.

I do see at least a few unbelievers brought to salvation in Jesus in each Christmas and Easter season (and many others hear the good news for the first time or again, so praise the Lord for that).

I use these seasons as a chance to review the gospels’ stories to freshen my own appreciation of Jesus Christ and speak of him as “the reason for the season” to my family, friends, and coworkers.

I get why Christmas can be poo pooed as a pagan holiday, carried over from winter soltice pagan observances. Nevertheless, Jesus’ coming is a really big deal! Worthy of our celebration that overrides that. Similar for Easter. Jesus death and resurrection are an even bigger deal, worthy of our celebration. IMHO