What The Gospel Means to Me

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Scribe

UntoHim, I am not sure what you are looking for here. Is the title of this thread merely a statement of UntoHim declaration of what the gospel means to you, or is it invitation for us to also share what the gospel means to us?

Well the title is "What the Gospel means to me" so I guess you could call it a declaration if you want. "Declaration" sounds a little too official for my taste, but yes, since I'm posting this on a public forum there is an expectation of dialog. I welcome it, it's what this forum is all about. I think the problem may be that you are holding on, to one degree or another, to Witness Lee's "additional" gospel, and Lee's gospel, at the very least, is an additional gospel to one I am speaking of. While Lee and his followers would call his gospel "a higher gospel" or "recovered truth", many Christians, including a number of former LC member such as myself, would beg to differ.

The Gospel that was preached by the Lord Jesus, and then by his chosen witnesses in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John has been accepted and taught by the majority of the Christian church for about two thousand years now. Of course there have been a number who have preached and taught an "incomplete" gospel, or even a corrupted gospel. History is replete with these "another gospel"s. Then there are those, such as Witness Lee, that fall on the other end of the spectrum - they preach and teach an "additional" gospel. Witness Lee is not the first one to proclaim that Paul's teachings were to be considered "higher" or "deeper" or even “further” then The Gospel that is proclaimed in the Matt, Mk, Lk and Jn. Lee is the one that I am most familiar with, hence I am most comfortable in discussing it with others.

So yes, I invite any and everyone to discuss what The Gospel means to you, but I will be challenging anybody who wants to make Witness Lee’s teachings as the baseline for what is to be considered The Gospel. As I noted before, even Lee himself stated, in so many words, that he had an additional gospel to preach and teach. A few years ago one of the “trainers” at the official “training” related this very thing – that Lee and his followers have a different or further (I’m paraphrasing) gospel then Christianity, and that they had been getting it wrong for all this time. A part of this message is posted somewhere on this forum – I will point you to it when I have time to dig it up.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Well the title is "What the Gospel means to me" so I guess you could call it a declaration if you want...

I realize we are here to discuss Witness Lee to some degree. But under such threads as these, we each account for the gospel we have heard and received. I think, that many use their positive or negative experiences with Witness Lee to filter and try to pigeon hole others. You have not found in my writing anything about "higher" or "lower" gospel. The gospel is the gospel. We either have it or we don't.

I am a gentile. As such, when Jesus came it was not to me. Surely His blood was effective even for me, but He came to the house of Israel. I don't have a gospel unless the Lord had opened the door by Peter and sent Paul through it. When that gospel is taken up by me, I am surely equipt to walk in the reality of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. But I have no way in unless I have the gospel Paul has brought to me.

Paul brought the right hand of the fellowship only Israel possessed. With that right hand, I am able to handle the Word of the truth, which is the gospel of my salvation. Ephesians 1:13 BY the gospel I am able to take up my cross daily and measure my steps in holiness.

Paul came through the region of Galatia annoucing the gospel. Barbarians received. Churches were raised up in a number of Galation cities. Paul laid hands on the believers but then had to leave them and move on to other cities. He expected that they would treasure the unspeakable gift his hand put upon them. He expected that they would daily handle the Word and be taught of God. He knew the Word would grow in them and mature in them, opening their eyes to all the vast riches of the gospel. What he did not expect was that Jews would come from Jerusalem with another gospel. In fact, he was stunned, and shocked, when he heard that the Galations were being swayed by these Messianic Jews. Surely the gentile believers thought highly of Jews coming from the apostles in Jerusalem. But I must say, It is only because the Word was young in their hands, and had not yet established the vision in their writing, that these Jews could draw them away. These ones propagated two errors. 1. that we need the law plus grace to be saved. 2. and once we are His, we need to add in law to be perfected. Both of these took them away from the simplicity he had placed in their hand. So in furry, Paul turns his pen back to Galatia. He shows clearly that his gospel is one of direct revelation and all that have it also have direct revelation. By this revelation Christ lives in them and they abide in Him. I do not see "a higher" gospel.....I just see the gospel that is the Word of the Truth. Nor do I see a "lower" gospel, but there is "another" gospel. The gospel brings me to the total condemnation that is upon all men. Then the gospel justifies me by the blood of Christ. This blood alone deals with our sins and accounts us righteous. Then the gospel arms me with the Word that sanctifies by hands on writing. That Word deals with my sin nature. In the growth of sanctification the gospel brings us into glory. In this glory we then see Israel. The gospel then uses us as a vehicle to raise up Israel and guide Israel into transformation by again handling the Word.(which makes us active in bringing Israel into Matthew, Mark, Luke and John reality). And then the gospel goes out again from Israel to shepherd the nations into the glorious millennium of His sabbath. This is the gospel.

As Paul turns back to Galatia he is fierce. He doesn't send any well wishes or blessings in the introduction. Nor does he send any greetings to any in the close. He is set to war for the gospel. His gospel is not sent to bring us into the religious world, but out of it. In the religious world all are too pour to handle the Word. (as I have written in other plases, todays Judaism forbids writing on sabbath. But until Jews can writing in the gospel on sabbath, they shall be held in darkness and shall oppose any that enter. That evil world is crucified to him and he to it by the very Word of truth he writes daily. He calls the Galations to take up the cross in hand for it is the gospel. Again, this is why he takes us to Abraham at Galations 3:8, to show that as Abraham wrote the gospel spoke to him. And to Habakkuk 2:2-4 at Galations 3:11, to show that to write the vision is the way of the faith of the gospel. Any gospel that does not arm me with the Word of the cross that I take up and write daily is the "another gospel" and is a curse. The gospel is the living God walking hand in hand with His people. "As many as shall walk by this RULE, peace be upon them" Galations 6:16.

Scribe

[UntoHim]

My friend Scribe,

You seem to be a bit of a "one trick pony". Now that's all well and good except for the fact that neither the pony nor the trick fits into this thread very well. This forum exists as a community of former and current members of the Local Churches associated with the ministry of Witness Lee (and Watchman Nee). I stood up for your right to post as you wish on the "Blogosphere" (and will continue to do so), but I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to keep your pony and his one trick at bay here on this thread. You seem like a pretty smart fellow - you know what I mean when I say The Gospel, and you know what I mean when I talk about "Lee's gospel". Your last post simple ignored these facts and continued on your merry way.

You also have failed to address my contention that the apostle Paul stated that The Gospel (the one I am talking about) is of "first importance". Maybe you have a larger grasp on the Greek text then I do - if so please let me and others in on your insight. My contention is that there is NO FURTHER GOSPEL to be taught or preached then that what is related to us in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The apostle Paul plainly related this very fact to us. My contention is that Witness Lee went further then what is plainly related to us in the Word of God as it relates to The Gospel. I think you know this by now. If you have a retort to my contention then have at it - no problemo. But please leave the one pony and his one trick out of your reply.

[Scribe]

UntoHim

I must not be that smart of a fellow. I don't know what you mean ,desire here. It seemed you desired to discuss the gospel. Perhaps you just want to discuss Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Perhaps you just want to discuss error of Witness Lee. Or perhaps something else. The Logos we post under is "what the gospel means to me". I have kept to that subject. This obviously is not what you seek. Therefore, as you desire, I will not post in this thread further. I can't seem to understand what you seek, or if I have anything to contribute. Forgive my irritation. I wasn't trying to do that.

Scribe