The Mind Benders - What Jack Sparks Actually Said

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

But for those who can remember points where they chose Lee over their conscience, or where they chose the ministry over the Bible, or where they blamed victims and supported perpetrators, or where they shoved God's voice aside and took in the co-workers' voices......repenting sounds appropriate and is good advice. This is a very situational thing and both Nell and Ohio and Paul's advice and wisdom is appropriate.....per the situation.

And I'm sure there are even others who have different experiences from the two types described here. Some other response/healing/journey is the appropriate thing for them too.

Trapped

Trapped thanks for sharing.

Those who are victims, as we all were/are, of others' lies, abuses, falsehoods, blaming, wrong choices, etc. do not bear the same guilt as those who are the leaders, the perpetrators, the abusers, and the deceivers. They have the "greater sin," as the Lord once said. We should repent for all our failures, especially those which damaged others.

I hope neither Nell nor I gave the impression that recovery from abusive systems is a piece of cake. I merely tried to provide encouragement that Jesus is our way to the Father, and that the stories in the Gospels show us that we are on the same pathway as many before us.

I probably should have mentioned one important distinction. I believe that Nell, Paul, and I had our own genuine faith in God as adults before entering the Recovery system. You, however, did not, growing up in an LC family. Your journey, as with other "church kids" is far more difficult, and needs more prayer and deliverance from that bondage.

[Paul Vusik]

I was going to post reply’s to each of the previous 3 posts, but then I figured I just reply to it in one post.
I appreciate both Trapped and Ohio points and I’ll just say that, I have noticed that most of the misunderstandings and disagreements here on this forum come from when we basically posting something with the assumption that most or even a few people went through the same things in their lives. This is especially true, when it comes to testimony and issues on social and general life situations.
We for the most part don’t know any, or very little of each other’s backgrounds, upbringing, family and social issues. We don’t know anything that each has gone through, or what they lived with.
I just comment on myself, and I say this before the Lord. I really by all statistical categories should be a statistic as of a long time ago. This forum is kind of limited to the LC discussions, so I “try” for the most part to stick to the issues with that. Maybe one day I’ll post my testimony here to clarify why I say what I did. My perspective on things is obviously coming from my experience for the most part, so if people never even considered that someone could have had differently than them, it could be offensive to them.
I personally feel horrible for the people who where born into the LC. I know that it’s not a positive thing people on this forum, but I don’t care. Call it what it is, don’t put lipstick on a pig. I know many people that have zero and I mean zero, understanding and even thoughts that there is actually God that exist outside of the LC. Don’t give excuses to those man that continue to destroy lives of people from birth. Call them out instead, expose them. These people that were born into it, as posted by Trapped really had no chance to even see anything beside the scam that is the LC.
Trapped, I know we disagree on a lot of things, but I didn’t actually know that you were born into it. I honestly say this to you, I’ll pray for you, and it’s a journey, not always pretty. I’m glad that you are one of the few “church kids” that did get out and didn’t throw in the towel, or went back in with your tail between your legs begging for forgiveness, for the fear of retribution or loosing your salvation.
Lastly, I know that its getting kind of a long post here, but I will just say this:
My LC experience, although shorter than a lot of people here was/is, to say the least worse than even the dead religious people that I have been around my whole life. At least the people in religion, didn’t claim, force feed, uplift themselves to such a level that LC did. Even worse, it had absolutely nothing to offer to people as a solution for anything. Psycho therapy probably would have had more better results than what I received as the solutions offered at the LC, which has no solutions. So, I write from that standpoint. God has done some amazingly great things in my life, so I know it rubs people the wrong way sometimes for what I write.
I’m not sure what the future holds here, but God will provide other outlets if and when it’s necessary to move forward. One thing I know for sure, there ain’t nobody in this world will shut me up from speaking the truth and the things that God has done in my life regardless of someone’s feelings!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trapped thanks for sharing.

Those who are victims, as we all were/are, of others' lies, abuses, falsehoods, blaming, wrong choices, etc. do not bear the same guilt as those who are the leaders, the perpetrators, the abusers, and the deceivers. They have the "greater sin," as the Lord once said. We should repent for all our failures, especially those which damaged others.

I hope neither Nell nor I gave the impression that recovery from abusive systems is a piece of cake. I merely tried to provide encouragement that Jesus is our way to the Father, and that the stories in the Gospels show us that we are on the same pathway as many before us.

I probably should have mentioned one important distinction. I believe that Nell, Paul, and I had our own genuine faith in God as adults before entering the Recovery system. You, however, did not, growing up in an LC family. Your journey, as with other "church kids" is far more difficult, and needs more prayer and deliverance from that bondage.

Thanks Ohio. My point began with a response to Mr. Sparks' statement in his book "The Mindbenders" that recovery from this Witness Lee/LC system was not possible. I was responding, also, to Paul's apparent belief that recovery from the Witness Lee/LC system was not possible.

I wanted, and still want, to encourage those who read such remarks that our Christian faith makes recovery totally possible. Repentance, foundational to the Christian faith, was my personal experience. This is what I wanted to share...encouragement to all in our faith. For me, repentance was a place to start. Everyone is different, even among Church Kids.

If anyone wants to continue this discussion, i.e., "Recovering from the 'Recovery' ", please start another thread, in which case, we can move these few posts to a new thread.

Nell