Quote From Today's Watchman/Witness Wednesday

[Zezima]

All fall short of the glory of God. You don’t fall less short than others from one sin over another. Paul is articulating why sexual immortality is considered a sin, because in the context of the Roman-Greco culture, it wasn’t. In fact, homosexuality wasn’t even considered an identity like today. Pedophilia was a part of life and normal. The view of sexual morality was totally different then. Nero the ruler of all rome castrated a male slave who was 13 or so, and married him.

When Lee makes a statement like that, it’s easy for his followers to create a tier of sins, resulting in self justification & legality. Oh I’m okay because I didn’t have homosexual relations, I just cuss out my wife. Well, all fall short of the glory.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

When Lee makes a statement like that, it’s easy for his followers to create a tier of sins, resulting in self justification & legality.

You are definitely right that Lee used "self justification and legality" to attack his critics, both from without and within, even developing heretical teachings like "covering the brothers" to protect himself and his family from any accountability.

But both the Law of God and the Law of the land makes a "tier of sins." For example, the 9th commandment does not say "Thou shalt not lie." Yes lying is bad, but bearing false witness against your neighbor is far worse. The 9th Command should be equivalent to perjury in court. Bearing false witness could imprison, or worse, a completely innocent person. Compare that to a much needed "white lie," like telling your wife she's the "most gorgeous girl on earth."

[UntoHim]

While Paul was certainly aware of the secular Greco-Roman culture of his day, it had nothing to do with what Paul considered a sin or not. Paul's morality was based in his Judaism - He was, after all, a "Pharisee of Pharisees". Paul's view of homosexuality was no doubt based upon the biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah, something that happened centuries before the Greco-Roman empire ever existed.

In any event, my friend Zezima, you missed my point about homosexuality damaging the image of God. This is a separate issue from everyone falling short of the glory of God. Unfortunately, to get into the differences would take us off track and would require starting a whole new thread. Trust me on this.

While your point about man's pathetic self-justification (I’m okay because I didn’t have homosexual relaxations, I just cuss out my wife) is well taken, I'm afraid that you're really begging the question rather than addressing the question at hand. Just sayin....
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[Zezima]

Fair enough, I digress. Apologies for misunderstanding. Without getting into the idea of sins being more significant than others, it is interesting that Lee focuses on one in particular.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But both the Law of God and the Law of the land makes a "tier of sins." For example, the 9th commandment does not say "Thou shalt not lie." Yes lying is bad, but bearing false witness against your neighbor is far worse. The 9th Command should be equivalent to perjury in court. Bearing false witness could imprison, or worse, a completely innocent person. Compare that to a much needed "white lie," like telling your wife she's the "most gorgeous girl on earth."

The consequences are different, but I’d argue that sin is sin. When you get focus on one, it sends the message that if you do this one then you’re worse than someone doing a different one. But, that maybe just my subjective reception of statements like the one Lee quoted.

[Zezima]

Your attire is also often unseemly. Some brothers dress like bums. When they stand up and speak, dressed like a bum, who will listen? I do not have the time today, but if I were to conduct the training myself, the first thing that I would do would be to change you thoroughly from head to toe. I am not asking you to buy good clothes. Rather, I want you to dress in a dignified, proper, tidy, and elegant way. You have to admit that if those who work in the bank dressed like you, they would be disqualified. You also have to agree that the church is higher than a bank. The work that we are doing today is much more valuable than the work that is done in a bank. However, the way you look today, you would not be hired if you were applying for a job at the bank.

- Vessels Useful to the Lord, Chapter 3, Section 4
- Witness Lee - Vessels Useful to the Lord LSM

[Zezima]

We do not have the slightest doubt about the divine inspiration of the Bible. On the contrary, we have proper understanding concerning the inspiration of the Scriptures. We believe that the entire Bible, every word in the Scripture, is God-breathed. Nevertheless, not every word in the Bible is the word of God. As we have seen, many words recorded in the Scriptures are the words of Satan, evil men, God's opposers, and even the nonsensical talk of godly men.

Life-Study of James, Chapter 14, Section 3 (Witness Lee)

We believe that the entire Bible is the Word of God, and every word of it is inspired.

Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 03, The Christian (1), Chapter 2, Section 1 (Watchman Nee)

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Life-Study of James, Chapter 14, Section 3 (Witness Lee)



Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 03, The Christian (1), Chapter 2, Section 1 (Watchman Nee)

Both of these man did more babbling and nonsensical talk, opposing God, etc, than anyone I’m aware of. So when it comes to these quotes, it’s just a pure PR spin. They “loved” the Bible, as if we are that naive to believe them.
They love it as much as the current crop of locals, who if you would walk into a meeting hall and propose to throw away the Bible or “the ministry of both men”, I’m very sure which trash can will get filled up first. I tried to say one time to couple of them, “how about we actually open up the Bible on Sunday and preach the Word, and throw away all the rest of the books?” One should have seen the looks I got!

On the other hand, here is a quote that’s more appropriate for today’s times.

“Odd, the way the less the Bible is read the more it is translated”
C. S. Lewis

[Paul Vusik]

“This revelation came from the very God in His oracle. Does this mean that when you hear this speaking, you are listening to a man? This means that you are listening to our dear, beloved God in His oracle. If you have been listening to God in my speaking, you have been blessed. My speaking of these main, new revelations in the past twenty-five years has been the oracle of God.”

I wish I could say it any better that the quotes below stated, but I can’t. So here is what I would say to a man who wrote that quote above:


“Far better for a man that he had never been born than that he should degrade a pulpit into a show box to exhibit himself in.”
―*Charles H. Spurgeon

“Ministers should be stars to give light, not clouds to obscure. In some cases the text is as clear as a mirror, till the preacher’s breath bedims it.”
―*Charles H. Spurgeon