Prophecy - The End Times

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Every generation since the Lord ascended has had believers thinkining the Lord was going to come back during their life time.

We do have the vantage point of more history to look at, but we still don´t know; the Lord may come back in 20 years, 50 or 100....So if it´s 100, are we living in the END TIMES?

The difference between this generation and other generations is the re birth of the nation of Israel and the return of Jerusalem back to Israel from Jordan in 1967.

Jesus could not return prior to this historical event because of what He said in Matthew 24:32-35

The question is whether a generation is 70, 80 or 120 years. I personally don’t see it being 120 yrs.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

The difference between this generation and other generations is the re birth of the nation of Israel and the return of Jerusalem back to Israel from Jordan in 1967.

Jesus could not return prior to this historical event because of what He said in Matthew 24:32-35

The reference to "this generation" always poses the question, "how long is this generation?"

But one thing is certain -- the prophecies are Israel-centric. All the prophets focused on what was happening in Israel. Myriads of Jews died in eastern Europe from numerous pogroms starting even in the early 19th century. Others dies from forced emigrations. Wholesale slaughters did not end until Israel became a nation, but that was the just the beginning of their struggles as a free people.

Yet as horrible as the WW2 Holocaust was, and many thought the end was then nigh, yet without the nation of Israel, without their capital Jerusalem, without possession of Mt. Zion, without their Temple, and without the restoration of "sacrifice and the oblation," (Daniel 9.27) the end is not yet.

Many had foretold the coming of Christ around Y2K, based on the principle of 7 days of Creation foretelling 7 millennia of history. But that was based on the time of the birth of Christ, rather than the death of the Christ ~ AD 30.

What do you think?

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The reference to "this generation" always poses the question, "how long is this generation?"

Yeah… that’s the million dollar question! I used to think a generation could be 40 yrs. Then, with a little help, I learned many people quote Psalm 90:10 to base what a generation is: “for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, Or if due to strength, eighty years”.

Others quote Genesis 6:3 “ Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Back then people easily lived 120 years. Not so today.

But one thing is certain -- the prophecies are Israel-centric. All the prophets focused on what was happening in Israel.

Very true indeed. There are some very good dispensationalist teachers out there. Their teachings explain how the Bible is written for all to read, but it is not written to everyone. The 4 gospels is mostly written TO the Jews, as is Acts 1 to about Acts 13. From Acts 1-13, the Good News is mostly preached to the Jewish people. In Acts 13, Paul begins preaching to the gentiles but he also preaches to the Jews. He sure was given a heavy duty task by God!

Oh…and the book of Hebrews… while we glean a LOT from it and I have grown spiritually from studying it, it is addressed to THE HEBREWS ! I have heard some teachers think it is very possible Hebrews will be the first book the Jewish people will read after the rapture. Interesting train of thought.I

There is also another so called controversial book in the NT (that is not controversial to me btw). And that book is James. It is addressed to the 12 tribes of Israel…

“ James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings”

It’s not being addressed to the converted Gentiles. But I personally have gleaned a lot from that book too. Another book the Jews will possibly read after the rapture.

Yet as horrible as the WW2 Holocaust was, and many thought the end was then nigh, yet without the nation of Israel, without their capital Jerusalem, without possession of Mt. Zion, without their Temple, and without the restoration of "sacrifice and the oblation," (Daniel 9.27) the end is not yet…

And sadly Israel will suffer terribly again during the coming Trib. However there will be many miracles too. IMHO, the 144,000 Israelites who will be sealed with the Seal of God on their foreheads, Revelation 7 will perform miracles providing shelter, food, water, healings to help people believe in Christ Jesus. Unlike those that take the mark of the beast, the 144,000 will have the Seal of GOD on their foreheads.

Those that take the mark of the beast, will have either the name of the beast or the number of his name. (Revelation 13).

Btw, I read somewhere that the word “end” really means “climax”. “The climax is not yet”. The climax will occur either at the battle of Armageddon or the final battle at the end of the millennium when Satan is loosed for a little while.


Many had foretold the coming of Christ around Y2K, based on the principle of 7 days of Creation foretelling 7 millennia of history. But that was based on the time of the birth of Christ, rather than the death of the Christ ~ AD 30.

What do you think?

Y2K was all the buzz around the world….yet we are still here.

But HOPEFULLY SOON :

[Matt Anderson]

But one thing is certain -- the prophecies are Israel-centric. All the prophets focused on what was happening in Israel.

Prophecies are Israel-centric. One of the things that has changed for me is one of the key questions I mentioned in my first post on this thread.

• Who is Israel? (Extremely important topic that can significantly alter our understanding of End Times prophecy)

As time permits, I'll be digging into this question and possibly affecting your view of who Israel is as an audience of End Times Prophecy.

As a preview, we do know and agree that most prophecies are Israel-centric but Israel is not a singular audience. Israel is a collection of tribes where various tribes are given different prophecies in some cases. At a higher level there are two major sub-groupings in OT Israel that receive distinct prophetic utterances.

Here is one prophetic text where these two major sub-groupings are represented.

Ezekiel 37:16 - “And you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it, ‘For Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.’

Judah, stick of Judah (for the sons of Israel, his companions) - southern kingdom of Israel and "sons of Israel" uses the Hebrew word ben which is typically a blood-line descendent

For Joseph, stick of Ephraim (all the house of Israel, his companions) - northern kingdom of Israel and ALL in the "house of Israel". Membership in a "house" does not require a bloodline connection. It includes bloodline descendants, but can also include adoptees and other members the master of the house has chosen to include.

These references to two major sub-groupings under the label "Israel" are not isolated. There is consistent usage of these sub-groupings in various prophetic text throughout the Old Testament.

At first, you may already think you have a view of these sub-groupings because of the history of Israel, but what has opened up for me and I believe it is confirmed by Paul the Apostle is that these sub-groupings also have significant implications for the End Times. So, even though prophecy is "Israel-centric" it may be time to begin to REMAP and REFINE our understanding of WHO ISRAEL IS and how we MAP the various prophecies forward to groups of modern people while preserving the "Israel-centric" nature of End Times prophecy.

I'm going to take the label "Israel" and begin to poke at whether the label "Israel" applies to is a singular grouping in modern times OR whether it points to multiple groupings. If multiple groupings then who are they. The Bible should tell us some about who they are and I believe it does.

And yes, I am going to be bringing up whether or not we as christians fall under the scope of the "whole house of Israel" from an End Times prophetic point of view. Many people have a hardened view that "the church" is completely distinct from "Israel". There is definitely a distinction, but I believe I have come to see that the totality of scripture does not support the level of distinction that most christians make.

This is more complex and challenges assumptions. My assumptions have been challenged and a rich tapestry of prophecies, types and foreshadowings have emerged for me over time that has significantly challenged the views I read about at first about End Times prophecy.

Matt

P.S. I have never come to a conclusion about the length of a "generation". There is no definitive way to figure it out, but I do believe the "End Times" spans a longer period of time than most might think with the exception of the last 7 (Daniel's 70th week) or 3.5 years. It is certain that the last 3.5 years is definitive and limited to that time window. It is likely that the last 7 years (which includes the last 3.5) happens without a gap. So, I believe we can be in the "End Times" without yet being in the last 7 years.