Prophecy - The End Times

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

thanks for (re)posting this. I was not aware of this at all. Looks like we should be even more watchful in 2022. Seems to be a year where an attempt to "fulfill a prophecy" may occur.

I hope Homeland Security is more aware of this stuff than I am.

Apparently the CIA read the article, or it read something.

I remember hearing in 2015, the news when Netanyahu paused for 40 seconds in his speech to the UN. There is a longstanding UN policy of bias against Israel, as with most of the world. As for fulfilling a prophecy, The only "prophecy" against the existance of Israel is Muhammed and radical Islam.

From the article: "Netanyahu did not only stare for forty seconds into the eyes of the world’s representatives, charging them of having kept silent in the face of Iran’s promise to destroy Israel. Netanyahu also pulled out a book in Farsi (language of Iran). The author is the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and he writes that “within 25 years there will be no more Israel”."

God, on the other hand, made a covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3;
Genesis 12:1-3
1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Ohio's prophecy is founded in God's covenant with Abraham.

Nell

[Zezima]

Why does the nation state of Israel matter? Isn’t the church the true Israel? Aren’t all the promises made to Abraham fulfilled in Jesus?

It’s interesting that the Lord’s Recovery claims to be returning to the original truths, but use dispensational theology to interpret the Bible. A framework that is only 200 years old.

[Timotheist]

Not worried about Israel. Just the Homeland. There is no covenant with the US

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

Not worried about Israel. Just the Homeland. There is no covenant with the US

God promised Abraham that He would “bless those who blessed him and his descendants.” This was the reason the US was blessed in the past.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

Not worried about Israel. Just the Homeland. There is no covenant with the US

Hopefully, as this topic progresses, we can gain a better understanding of why we should "worry about Israel". Here's a hint: those countries who hate Israel, also hate the United States. Remember the chants of "Death to America"? They mean it.

As for "no covenant with the US", Ohio is right, as stated in the Abrahamic covenant: "blessing on those who bless Israel." Part of the Abrahamic covenant v.3 "and in the all families of the earth be blessed". That's us. That's the Gentiles. So, incorporating by reference, the US is indeed included in the Abrahamic covenant because of God's people, the Gentiles, who live here.

Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

Hopefully, as this topic progresses, we can gain a better understanding of why we should "worry about Israel". Here's a hint: those countries who hate Israel, also hate the United States. Remember the chants of "Death to America"? They mean it.

As for "no covenant with the US", Ohio is right, as stated in the Abrahamic covenant: "blessing on those who bless Israel." Part of the Abrahamic covenant v.3 "and in the all families of the earth be blessed". That's us. That's the Gentiles. So, incorporating by reference, the US is indeed included in the Abrahamic covenant because of God's people, the Gentiles, who live here.

It seems some folks don't understand that the descendants of Abraham are of two types, earthly and heavenly, as the scripture says, "will number the sand of the seashore, and the stars of heaven." (Genesis 22.17) Abraham has both children in the flesh and children of faith. The Christian believers are the children of faith, and the Jews are children of the flesh.

These only the positive descendants of Abraham, spoken of in scripture. Abraham also has a multitude of offspring thru Ishmael, many of which are today's Muslims. And unfortunately many today who have Jewish blood from Abraham neither believe in God nor love Israel. In fact, many of the greatest enemies to the faith and to the Jews, and for that matter the entirety of Western Judean Christian civilization, have Jewish blood.

The statement occasionally arises concerning how someone with Jewish ancestry can be anti-semitic. But was not Hitler himself a quarter Jewish?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It seems some folks don't understand that the descendants of Abraham are of two types, earthly and heavenly, as the scripture says, "will number the sand of the seashore, and the stars of heaven." (Genesis 22.17) Abraham has both children in the flesh and children of faith. The Christian believers are the children of faith, and the Jews are children of the flesh.

These only the positive descendants of Abraham, spoken of in scripture. Abraham also has a multitude of offspring thru Ishmael, many of which are today's Muslims. And unfortunately many today who have Jewish blood from Abraham neither believe in God nor love Israel. In fact, many of the greatest enemies to the faith and to the Jews, and for that matter the entirety of Western Judean Christian civilization, have Jewish blood.

The statement occasionally arises concerning how someone with Jewish ancestry can be anti-semitic. But was not Hitler himself a quarter Jewish?

Thanks, Ohio, for providing this perspective, and for opening the door on a major factor in end time prophecy: Ishmael.

"Islamic lore reports that Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael to Mecca, and Ishmael is considered a patriarch of Islam. While it is not accurate to say that all Arabs are descended from Ishmael, many probably are. There is still a great deal of strife between the descendants of Isaac and those who see Ishmael as their father. One wonders how things might have been different had Abraham simply trusted God to bring about His promise without any added “help” from Abraham and Sarah." gotquestions.com (Yeah. Really.)

Abraham loved his firstborn son, Ishmael, and prayed to God on his behalf. God heard Abraham’s prayers.
Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Here is a character lesson on who God is. God's covenant was established with Isaac, but as a descendent of Abraham, God was bound toward Ishmael also.

As to the veracity of Islamic lore, we cannot say, but the "strife" between the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael is undeniable.

That "great deal of strife" can be described, today, as Radical Islam. The Arab countries geographically surround Israel and politically deny that she has the right to exist. Radical Islam also hates those nations who bless the descendants of Isaac.

Jerusalem has been fought over by every major power in history.
• The Babylonians held it.
• Then the Medes and Persians.
• Alexander the Great took Palestine for the Greeks in 333 BC.
• Later the Egyptians and Syrians alternately had it until
• the Romans.
• Islamic invaders took control until replaced by
• the Crusaders.
• Later, Islamic Egypt.
• Then the Ottoman Turkish Empire ruled for about 400 years.

"It so happened that in the early twentieth century the British Empire was drawn into a war that would involve the Ottoman Turkish Empire, the power that, at the time, ruled over the land of Israel. During the war (World War I) the Ottoman Empire crumbled, and British forces led by General Edmund Allenby entered the Holy Land. The British would take the city of Jerusalem without a fight. " The Shemitah, Jonathan Cahn

This is one good reason for us to care about Israel.

Nell

[Ohio]

When we typically speak of “The End Times, ” we speak of major events prophesied in scripture. Many of these center on Israel. Just read thru the whole Bible, and see if you agree with me.

For approximately 1900 years, the status of the nation of Israel was “deceased.” Many, many had predicted the end of the world before that, yet there will be no end until certain realities about Israel happened. For example, 2 Thess 2, Matt 24, and Daniel 9 all correspond and point to “someone” exalting himself in the temple of God, and desecrating it. Jesus Himself mentions this major event will occur in the future, so it could not have happened already. Neither did Vespasian nor his son Titus fit the description.

How could this happen without the nation of Israel (1948), and without the city of Jerusalem (1967) recognized as their capital (2018)? Yet these events, against all odds, have already occurred!

And how can this happen without their Temple rebuilt with the Ark of the Covenant?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Why does the nation state of Israel matter? Isn’t the church the true Israel? Aren’t all the promises made to Abraham fulfilled in Jesus?

Israel is important because of God’s promises, covenants, and prophecies, recorded in His Word.

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Why does the nation state of Israel matter? Isn’t the church the true Israel? Aren’t all the promises made to Abraham fulfilled in Jesus?

It’s interesting that the Lord’s Recovery claims to be returning to the original truths, but use dispensational theology to interpret the Bible. A framework that is only 200 years old.

I was hoping that I would never see this thread here, but I guess it is what it is.

I’ll just respond with this,
“What MOTA is to LSM/LC, so is the Israel to the modern day Churchianity”

According, to the recovery Israel is still important in the end times because of God's promise to Abraham. And that the Jews are still God's people in the old creation. However, because the Jews deny Jesus and are rebellious against God He will punish them as He has throughout history this time with the anti Christ in Europe. Killing 2/3 I believe is the number.

But further according to the recovery the great tribulation won't begin until mature, transformed saints are raptured to heaven. The co workers say we are different. And in the last few years I see the saints are different. Im not sure if the God the co workers present to us is the God of the universe in the heavens.
To keep it simple i don't think God is super sensitive, gets easily offended and thinks most things are sinful or worldly.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by yoguy00

According, to the recovery Israel is still important in the end times because of God's promise to Abraham. And that the Jews are still God's people in the old creation. However, because the Jews deny Jesus and are rebellious against God He will punish them as He has throughout history this time with the anti Christ in Europe. Killing 2/3 I believe is the number.

But further according to the recovery the great tribulation won't begin until mature, transformed saints are raptured to heaven. The co workers say we are different. And in the last few years I see the saints are different. Im not sure if the God the co workers present to us is the God of the universe in the heavens.
To keep it simple i don't think God is super sensitive, gets easily offended and thinks most things are sinful or worldly.

The LR’s interpretation of modern day Israel comes from a form of interpretation called dispensationalism. It’s how they approach the Bible to interpret it. It’s very appealing way to interpret the Bible because it makes people feel that their own life / time of history are part of gods final act.

Historically it’s a very new theology, one that is really only popular in the USA. It’s not limited to the LR, but it’s a minority of believers in the USA.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Isn’t the church the true Israel? Aren’t all the promises made to Abraham fulfilled in Jesus?

I've heard that too. I would need some scriptural support.

Nell

[Nell]

To backtrack a bit, the Abrahamic Covenant wasn't the first prophecy. The first prophecy begins in Genesis and is fully fulfilled by the book of Revelation.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This emboldened statement above is the first prophecy. To the serpent God says: “it (the seed of woman, Jesus Christ) shall bruise your head (the head of the serpent), and you (the serpent) shall bruise his heel.”

At this point, sin had entered into this newly created world and as a result, the first Adam had been driven out of the garden which God had created for him. We are not told that Eve was driven from the garden. It appears that Adam’s wife, Eve, had willingly left the garden with her husband.

Gen. 3:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Outside the garden, Adam had no choice but to till the ground…to make his own garden…in order to survive. They had 2 sons. Soon, one son killed the other. Then another son, Seth.

[Timotheist]

Regarding my concern about the US and the rebuttal:

I was fully aware of the verses quoted in this very thread.

If the US was allowed to flourish so that one day she would protect Israel, she has slipped greatly during a time of need. If Iran produces a nuclear weapon, that will be on us.

If it is God's will to protect Israel from this weapon, then it would only be just that it go off over here.

I think its more than a little naïve to think that God would protect the US from severe damage, or even Israel for that matter. After all, as a nation, they were not even around for 1900 years.

I betcha Judah was quoting these same verses when Titus rolled into town.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Nell

To backtrack a bit, the Abrahamic Covenant wasn't the first prophecy. The first prophecy begins in Genesis and is fully fulfilled by the book of Revelation.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This emboldened statement above is the first prophecy. To the serpent God says: “it (the seed of woman, Jesus Christ) shall bruise your head (the head of the serpent), and you (the serpent) shall bruise his heel.”

At this point, sin had entered into this newly created world and as a result, the first Adam had been driven out of the garden which God had created for him. We are not told that Eve was driven from the garden. It appears that Adam’s wife, Eve, had willingly left the garden with her husband.

Gen. 3:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Outside the garden, Adam had no choice but to till the ground…to make his own garden…in order to survive. They had 2 sons. Soon, one son killed the other. Then another son, Seth.

Can argue that the first covenant was in Genesis 2. “ Lord God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Establishing a covenant of works.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Can argue that the first covenant was in Genesis 2. “ Lord God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Establishing a covenant of works.

Well...it's definitely a commandment. I don't know if a commandment can be a covenant, too.

Definition of covenant: It presupposes two or more parties who come together to make a contract, agreeing on promises, stipulations, privileges, and responsibilities.

When God said "you must not eat", he wasn't seeking Adam's agreement, IMHO, was he?

Nell