Relationship

[DP0902]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I was concerned about my partner because he is currently in Full-Time Training and I am aware that he will be trained on Witness Lee's interpretation. We had already agreed not to discuss our contrasting church practices and beliefs in order to avoid any potential conflicts. We had already agreed that he would marry me in our church (Christian denomination) and not in their local church. We're both legal in our parents, but we just hide our relationship in their church because he's still in training. I'm praying that God will speak to Him. I'm not sure how their elder will react if he finds out about our relationship.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by DP0902

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I was concerned about my partner because he is currently in Full-Time Training and I am aware that he will be trained on Witness Lee's interpretation. We had already agreed not to discuss our contrasting church practices and beliefs in order to avoid any potential conflicts. We had already agreed that he would marry me in our church (Christian denomination) and not in their local church. We're both legal in our parents, but we just hide our relationship in their church because he's still in training. I'm praying that God will speak to Him. I'm not sure how their elder will react if he finds out about our relationship.

Seems to be a couple of “red flags” here. First, I think he may be violating strict FTTA rules by having a relationship with you talking about marriage when he is in the training. Does this indicate anything to you?

Second, agreeing not to talk about this topic of potential future conflicts is very worrisome to me. If nothing else, marriage is all about talking about difficult things. Does his apparent unwillingness to talk about this issue prior to marriage worry you? Would it be wise for you to take some time to review these things with a marriage counselor? Maybe talk to a pastor in your church? Praying for you, I can’t imagine how stressful this must be for you.

I figured it had something to do with the ftta. Click on the Elders and Leading Brothers' Recommendation Form pdf in the link below. It's right there. Rule number 7. Maybe the elders never asked him, or he lied. I just say be at peace and try not to stress. If it's actually enforceable it's ridiculous. As it's none of their business. Yes there are alot of personal questions on that form.

They were doing the training remotely but now have began in person again.

https://www.ftta.org/apply/index.php

[DP0902]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I figured it had something to do with the ftta. Click on the Elders and Leading Brothers' Recommendation Form pdf in the link below. It's right there. Rule number 7. Maybe the elders never asked him, or he lied. I just say be at peace and try not to stress. If it's actually enforceable it's ridiculous. As it's none of their business. Yes there are alot of personal questions on that form.

They were doing the training remotely but now have began in person again.

https://www.ftta.org/apply/index.php

Thank you for sharing that with me. Yes, their questions are invading someone's personal life. Do you have any idea what will happen to FTT students once they had graduated from their training?

He will either go full-time, get a job and start working, or go back to school and further his education for a more advanced degree. However, this will most likely be discussed, they use the word fellowship with the trainers or the leading church leaders where he is from.

On the matter of full time, the surrounding churches will provide financial support for him. To move, to a city to preach the gospel and get college student contacts to do weekly bible studies and eventually bring them into the church.

But do know marriage is off for at least two years from when he originally started the training.

Felt the sense to reply to your question, OP - I've been perusing the forums for a while and yours resonated because I've had experience with it.

To your latest question, what happens to FTT graduates varies. Some stay within the LR solidly and others fade out quietly. Some are on the peripheral and some wholeheartedly give themselves for the LR. Most live out their lives as before, but with additional knowledge of the Word, ministry, and practices to a degree.

I've graduated from the FTT and married a Christian brother who isn't fully for the LR. We've been married nearly a decade now, and it's a journey (just like it's a journey with God Himself). We were in a relationship prior to the training, and we agreed to put it on hold while I was in the training. It was ROUGH. To be honest, I slightly bent Rule 7 a little during the interims (breaks) by saying hi to him in public meetings. After I graduated, we met up again, caught up, and reaffirmed our feelings for each other. This is a very condensed version of my experience. As Unto Him said, if he really loves you, and really loves God, and you love God, trust in God.

My experience may not be very typical. I can only pray that for you and for him, that it works out for both of you. It's definitely important to see that Christ should be the foundation of your relationship, not the LR. My husband and I have made it thus far because of putting God first, and also just being real with each other thru the years.

And in response to your original question, usually yes, it's okay to marry outside the Recovery. The response may vary depending on many internal/external factors. Where I am at, I have seen marriages where both spouses are in the LR and marriages where one spouse isn't originally or isn't attached to the LR deeply. Recently have seen an engagement where the sister's fiance seems not attached to the LR. If the leading brothers are wise in Christ (one can only hope and pray so), the brothers shouldn't judge.

I myself am going thru my own personal journey on processing my relationship with the LR, with God, with myself, my friends and family in the LR, and in relation to other fellow believers. It's been a bit bumpy but one step at a time. Will be praying for you, OP!

[DP0902]

Thank you very much. The most crucial aspect of every relationship is that Christ is at the core of it all. I appreciate your response to my query. God bless you always.

[gr8ful]

Originally Posted by DP0902

Thank you for sharing that with me. Yes, their questions are invading someone's personal life. Do you have any idea what will happen to FTT students once they had graduated from their training?

Hi. I went to the Full Time Training in Anaheim (FTTA) in the 1990s and have known people who have been before and since then. First of all, the "Consecration #7" issue (no boy/girl relationships) is serious enough that people discovered to have violated it have been removed from the training (and then invited to return to their church to pursue the relationship).

Secondly, after the FTTA, or actually towards the END of FTTA, the attention shifts strongly towards getting the trainees married. When I was there, and have heard this from others, too, we had several "4th term brother" and "4th term sister" meetings where the harsh restriction from having male-female relationships is lifted and the soon-to-be-graduated trainees are encouraged to pursue a spouse.

Unsurprisingly, the entire fellowship on finding a spouse is centered on finding someone of the same vision of God's Economy -- someone who can join to give their lives full-time to "Christ and the Church." The "trainees" are held in a high esteem (well, in SoCal, anyway) and the thought of "losing" a trainee to a non-Recovered spouse isn't pleasantly accepted as "God's Perfect Will."

I do know faithful members in the Local Churches who are married to someone met outside of the Lord's Recovery (and some who since marriage stopped meeting), but these are considered sub-par pairings -- as in, "oh, that's a shame." The couple isn't shunned, per se, but there's a definite "oh, we should do something to help our young people find a spouse in the church!" when such relationships happen. Also, I've been in prayer meetings where strong prayers were made for the non-meeting partner to be "gained" for God's Economy, and those prayers followed up with invitations to the couple to "come for dinner." I don't know if the effort to "gain" the non-meeting spouse ever subsides. It may, but it remains a sticky issue for a long time in the minds of everyone in the church around that couple -- especially if one spouse is intending to be a serving one.

More to the issue at heart, though, is a concern on how this "hiding the heart" is affecting your boyfriend in the FTT. Knowing that he's not respecting the sworn consecration and also can't openly be in such an important life-relationship might result in guilt, shame, and other painful feelings. One the one hand, hiding such a fact from the Training is hardly a great way to start one's "Service to the Lord," but on the other, feeling that he has to chose between the Lord and you...that's not a great way to start a life-relationship with someone. It's a shame that the pressure to conform to the "call" to attend the FTT is so strong one would be in such a situation to put God against love.

That may seem like a strong paragraph, but having been in the FTT, and having seen colleagues struggling with this very issue still lingers with me so many years later. One trainee had an emotional breakdown over his relationship with his fiancée, which he had to hide while he was in the training. I cannot imagine the stress this must have caused.

The official line from the FTT is along the lines of "we encourage health relationships and want to see brothers and sisters marry; however, just for the period of the two year FTT, we want trainees to be focused on the Lord and to set aside such plans until after the training. If one cannot put pursuing a spouse aside, we free them from the training so they can pursue such a relationship with a clear conscience." As if the incessant "Go to the training!" calls at every major LSM conference/training isn't putting enormous pressure on young people scared they won't measure up to be overcomers....

Hello, I am a former member and I remember watching a training/conference video at the meeting hall when I believe Ed Marks gave this example regarding marrying an outsider/non-LC member, he said "Stand on a chair. Now try to lift someone up. That's what it will be like if you marry someone who's not in the Church-life. It'll be easier for them to bring you down than for you to lift them up to the church-life." I'm paraphrasing but that's exactly what he meant. However, I have personally known LC members that were courting non LC members that were meeting and actually got baptized in the LC. They stopped meeting not too long after the wedding.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by gr8ful

Hi. I went to the Full Time Training in Anaheim (FTTA) in the 1990s and have known people who have been before and since then. First of all, the "Consecration #7" issue (no boy/girl relationships) is serious enough that people discovered to have violated it have been removed from the training (and then invited to return to their church to pursue the relationship).
…
As if the incessant "Go to the training!" calls at every major LSM conference/training isn't putting enormous pressure on young people scared they won't measure up to be overcomers....

Gr8ful,

I never really thought it was helpful to call the Local Church of Witness Lee a cult. But after reading this, what else…?

I can only think of two bits of advice.
RUN! Run away as fast as you can. Don’t look back.
PRAY! Pray for God to rescue anyone you love from this toxic place!

DP0902, I’m so sorry for the situation you and your friend face.

Nell

[Zezima]

Why don’t you meet with the LR?